O’s offense has wasted some pretty good pitching lately

[Frobby]

Five of our last six losses have come by scores of 2-1, 3-1, 3-1, 2-1 and 3-1.    The other loss was 5-1, and was a 2-0 game until Wojo allowed 3 runs in the top of the 9th.    

It was always a matter of time until our offense fell to earth, but it has really fallen hard.    Severino does not have an RBI in September after having 21 in his first 27 games.   Alberto has a .464 OPS in his last 18 games.   
 

[weams]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Five of our last six losses have come by scores of 2-1, 3-1, 3-1, 2-1 and 3-1.    The other loss was 5-1, and was a 2-0 game until Wojo allowed 3 runs in the top of the 9th.    

It was always a matter of time until our offense fell to earth, but it has really fallen hard.    Severino does not have an RBI in September after having 21 in his first 27 games.   Alberto has a .464 OPS in his last 18 games.   
 

This is really true. The pitching we have been facing has been excellent as well. Some poor defense has contributed to what runs we have given up. 

 

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, weams said:

This is really true. The pitching we have been facing has been excellent as well. Some poor defense has contributed to what runs we have given up.

 

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but can you think of some recent examples of where defense cost us runs?   We did not allow any unearned runs in the games I listed.    We all know that bad defense sometimes contributes to runs allowed even when no errors are charged, but did that happen in these games?   I wasn’t watching closely enough to know (or at least, don’t recall).   

[weams]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but can you think of some recent examples of where defense cost us runs?   We did not allow any unearned runs in the games I listed.    We all know that bad defense sometimes contributes to runs allowed even when no errors are charged, but did that happen in these games?   I wasn’t watching closely enough to know (or at least, don’t recall).   

I think DJ's triple scored. I think both Valaka and Hanser made bad throws that allowed runs even it not errors. I specifically remember two plays at the plate that had poor throws. Several Severino passed balls. 

[wildcard]

The pitching is stepping up and the offense and defense is not.  Every O's player is auditioning.  They could get their reward or cost them in the off season.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but can you think of some recent examples of where defense cost us runs?   We did not allow any unearned runs in the games I listed.    We all know that bad defense sometimes contributes to runs allowed even when no errors are charged, but did that happen in these games?   I wasn’t watching closely enough to know (or at least, don’t recall).   

The defense is really bad. Not just in errors but in plays that should have been made. The foul ball that Mountcastle gave up on when he was still playing left. Throws in that either missed the cutoff man or were intended to go all the way and just petered out. The game ending play saved by Iglesias where there was no one at first to take the relay and throw home and Iglesias alertly got to the ball and completed the play. Double plays that weren’t turned because of a slow turn and throw to first. You yourself have mentioned Hays missing three outfield assists because Ruiz dropped the ball or wasn’t near enough to make the tag.

Those don’t necessarily create unearned runs but are sloppy defense nonetheless. And they are all over the place.

[Frobby]

35 minutes ago, Philip said:

The defense is really bad. Not just in errors but in plays that should have been made. The foul ball that Mountcastle gave up on when he was still playing left. Throws in that either missed the cutoff man or were intended to go all the way and just petered out. The game ending play saved by Iglesias where there was no one at first to take the relay and throw home and Iglesias alertly got to the ball and completed the play. Double plays that weren’t turned because of a slow turn and throw to first. You yourself have mentioned Hays missing three outfield assists because Ruiz dropped the ball or wasn’t near enough to make the tag.

Those don’t necessarily create unearned runs but are sloppy defense nonetheless. And they are all over the place.

My question was more specific.   I was talking about the 5 games we’ve recently lost by 2-1 and 3-1 scores, and whether bad defense contributed to the runs we allowed.   Did any of the plays you mentioned fit that category?  For the most part,  I simply don’t know.      The game where Hays made two good throws where the tags (by Alberto) were not good was the 5-1 loss to the Braves, and the second one (involving Acuna) did lead to a run.  The third one was not mentioned by me and involved Ruiz but I didn’t see it and don’t remember when it happened.   I think the Mountcastle play led to an eventual walk and the runner eventually scored in a 3-1 loss to Tampa.  

As an observation, you are right to point out the sloppy plays, but the real question is do we make more of them than a typical team.    That’s harder to say.    Rtot has us as the best defensive team in the AL, Rdrs has us as average, UZR has us 11th/15.    All three of those take more than just errors into account, so it’s a bit of a Rohrshach test; you can see whatever you choose to see.   I’d guess I’ve only watched about 30% of the innings we’ve played this year, so I’m not in a great position to give opinions based on the eye test.    I do know this: every team makes sloppy plays at times.    It’s not like the Orioles have a monopoly on that.    
 

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My question was more specific.   I was talking about the 5 games we’ve recently lost by 2-1 and 3-1 scores, and whether bad defense contributed to the runs we allowed.   Did any of the plays you mentioned fit that category?  For the most part,  I simply don’t know.      The game where Hays made two good throws where the tags (by Alberto) were not good was the 5-1 loss to the Braves, and the second one (involving Acuna) did lead to a run.  The third one was not mentioned by me and involved Ruiz but I didn’t see it and don’t remember when it happened.   I think the Mountcastle play led to an eventual walk and the runner eventually scored in a 3-1 loss to Tampa.  

As an observation, you are right to point out the sloppy plays, but the real question is do we make more of them than a typical team.    That’s harder to say.    Rtot has us as the best defensive team in the AL, Rdrs has us as average, UZR has us 11th/15.    All three of those take more than just errors into account, so it’s a bit of a Rohrshach test; you can see whatever you choose to see.   I’d guess I’ve only watched about 30% of the innings we’ve played this year, so I’m not in a great position to give opinions based on the eye test.    I do know this: every team makes sloppy plays at times.    It’s not like the Orioles have a monopoly on that.    
 

Friday night, we lost 2-1 and Tampa got a run because DJ couldn't catch the ball in RF and it went for a triple, and that guy scored on a single.  Is that specific enough?

[SteveA]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My question was more specific.   I was talking about the 5 games we’ve recently lost by 2-1 and 3-1 scores, and whether bad defense contributed to the runs we allowed.   Did any of the plays you mentioned fit that category?  For the most part,  I simply don’t know.      The game where Hays made two good throws where the tags (by Alberto) were not good was the 5-1 loss to the Braves, and the second one (involving Acuna) did lead to a run.  The third one was not mentioned by me and involved Ruiz but I didn’t see it and don’t remember when it happened.   I think the Mountcastle play led to an eventual walk and the runner eventually scored in a 3-1 loss to Tampa.  

As an observation, you are right to point out the sloppy plays, but the real question is do we make more of them than a typical team.    That’s harder to say.    Rtot has us as the best defensive team in the AL, Rdrs has us as average, UZR has us 11th/15.    All three of those take more than just errors into account, so it’s a bit of a Rohrshach test; you can see whatever you choose to see.   I’d guess I’ve only watched about 30% of the innings we’ve played this year, so I’m not in a great position to give opinions based on the eye test.    I do know this: every team makes sloppy plays at times.    It’s not like the Orioles have a monopoly on that.    
 

What about the game about a week ago where we should have thrown a guy out at 3rd but Mountcastle bounced a throw, which IMO Ruiz should have been able to field on the bounce and still make the tag, and an inning or two later there was a bad throw to the plate that Sisco still should have been able to field and make the tag but didn't.  That was a close loss and those two plays cost us.  And I won't even mention Mullins' pathetic throw from LF to the plate in that game that was way off line because I can't say for SURE that a good throw would have gotten the runner.

[Sports Guy]

This is what happens when you aren’t good.

Just have to focus on what’s going well.

 

[Too Tall]

Not defense, but all the bad at bats - swinging at balls clearly outside the strike zone.  Especially breaking balls low and away.  We had a Tampa pitcher last night with nearly 60 pitches in two innings and the only run was scored by a hbp. I agree with the the points made about defense but our approach to hitting is driving me nuts and has led to wasting some good pitching! 

[HowAboutThat]

47 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My question was more specific.   I was talking about the 5 games we’ve recently lost by 2-1 and 3-1 scores, and whether bad defense contributed to the runs we allowed.   Did any of the plays you mentioned fit that category?  For the most part,  I simply don’t know.      The game where Hays made two good throws where the tags (by Alberto) were not good was the 5-1 loss to the Braves, and the second one (involving Acuna) did lead to a run.  The third one was not mentioned by me and involved Ruiz but I didn’t see it and don’t remember when it happened.   I think the Mountcastle play led to an eventual walk and the runner eventually scored in a 3-1 loss to Tampa.  

As an observation, you are right to point out the sloppy plays, but the real question is do we make more of them than a typical team.    That’s harder to say.    Rtot has us as the best defensive team in the AL, Rdrs has us as average, UZR has us 11th/15.    All three of those take more than just errors into account, so it’s a bit of a Rohrshach test; you can see whatever you choose to see.   I’d guess I’ve only watched about 30% of the innings we’ve played this year, so I’m not in a great position to give opinions based on the eye test.    I do know this: every team makes sloppy plays at times.    It’s not like the Orioles have a monopoly on that.    
 

According to baseball savant OAA, we have three above average players on the team: Hays, Mullins and Iglesias. Everyone else is either zero or below average. I don’t know how they calculate that, but good teams don’t play sloppy. The Orioles are incredibly sloppy. Sloppy play has led to multiple runs, even over the last series. It may just be inexperience, but Stewart has played several balls off the wall badly that resulted in doubles instead of singles. And as @Beef Supreme pointed out, Stewart is clumsy and awkward despite his above average speed.

Ruiz can’t reliably tag, nobody plays short hops well, and so on.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Philip

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

Friday night, we lost 2-1 and Tampa got a run because DJ couldn't catch the ball in RF and it went for a triple, and that guy scored on a single.  Is that specific enough?

Yes, but why the snark.   I didn’t see the play in question, and I already said I haven’t seen a lot of these games.   I was looking for information, not making an argument.  

[Frobby]

48 minutes ago, Philip said:

According to baseball savant OAA, we have three above average players on the team: Hays, Mullins and Iglesias. Everyone else is either zero or below average. 

According to what I’m seeing on Baseball Savant, Stewart and Santander are both rated at +1.  https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&year=2020&team=BAL&range=year&min=q&pos=&roles=&viz=show

I think OAA is a probably the best measure of how the outfielders did at catching fly balls.   It does not purport to measure outfield throws, or cutting balls off before they get into the gap or into a corner.   So, you have to read the stat for what it is and recognize those limitations.    

Just eyeballing Rtot, Rdrs and UZR, they are all over the lot with respect to which individual players have been good or bad.    

 

[SteveA]

57 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yes, but why the snark.   I didn’t see the play in question, and I already said I haven’t seen a lot of these games.   I was looking for information, not making an argument.  

Ok sorry.  I have watched most of the games the last two weeks and our defense has been very shaky.  Poor throws, bobbled balls that resulted in single outs instead of DPs or no outs instead of one, etc.

And we've lost a ton of close games at a time where the team we are chasing for the last playoff spot has basically been the worst team in baseball and trying to hand us a playoff spot on a platter.  Obviously the bats have been the biggest issue but watching the game and constantly seeing subpar defensive play in close losses has been very frustrating.