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Means trade comp


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2 hours ago, Natty said:

Ever since the Chris Davis money debacle, the Orioles have been trading away good and even potential all star caliber players. 

Look what we got, half our team is AAA caliber players who would most likely not be in the majors with any  good team. 

I will stipulate that Dan Duquette made poor trades for Machado and Zach Britton.  To some extent, he was forced to get what he could, because they were pending free agents, but still he could have done a better job picking players.  

I will also stipulate that Elias has made trades that were motivated entirely by saving money and that gave us very little back in terms of talent returned--Jonathan Villar especially.  I absolutely hate this kind of trade.  

However, we're not talking about a Jonathan Villar-kind of trade here.  We're talking more like an Eric Bedard for Chris Tillman and Adam Jones deal--we trade our best current player for a couple of blue chip prospects who have a high chance of being stars in a few years.  Those trades can help a bad team rebuild more quickly.  The Bedard trade was the cornerstone of the O's renaissance in the 2012-2016 period.        

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16 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I will stipulate that Dan Duquette made poor trades for Machado and Zach Britton.  To some extent, he was forced to get what he could, because they were pending free agents, but still he could have done a better job picking players.  

I will also stipulate that Elias has made trades that were motivated entirely by saving money and that gave us very little back in terms of talent returned--Jonathan Villar especially.  I absolutely hate this kind of trade.  

However, we're not talking about a Jonathan Villar-kind of trade here.  We're talking more like an Eric Bedard for Chris Tillman and Adam Jones deal--we trade our best current player for a couple of blue chip prospects who have a high chance of being stars in a few years.  Those trades can help a bad team rebuild more quickly.  The Bedard trade was the cornerstone of the O's renaissance in the 2012-2016 period.        

All those trades we have had in the last 5 years have helped us rebuild into the worst record in baseball. Some rebuild, Right?

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I hope Orioles management is Baseball wise enough to know what they have in Means.  They are expected by many to compete in 2 or 3 years and Means should have several years of success on his resume by then.  No one knows the future, but that is what they should count on unless they have become the K.C Royals of the 2020s.  Some years ago the Royals were used by the Yankees as their unofficial Farm Club. to  train players who at the right time were obtained by them,  just when the players had become Major League worthy.  Not only has Means  got a great future barring injury, which no one can predict, but he is Left Handed, which adds some topping to the cake  IMO.  

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3 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

I will stipulate that Dan Duquette made poor trades for Machado and Zach Britton.  To some extent, he was forced to get what he could, because they were pending free agents, but still he could have done a better job picking players.  

I will also stipulate that Elias has made trades that were motivated entirely by saving money and that gave us very little back in terms of talent returned--Jonathan Villar especially.  I absolutely hate this kind of trade.  

However, we're not talking about a Jonathan Villar-kind of trade here.  We're talking more like an Eric Bedard for Chris Tillman and Adam Jones deal--we trade our best current player for a couple of blue chip prospects who have a high chance of being stars in a few years.  Those trades can help a bad team rebuild more quickly.  The Bedard trade was the cornerstone of the O's renaissance in the 2012-2016 period.        

In general, I think front offices are way smarter now - and Bedard-type returns in trades are a thing of the past. But I agree with you, Means is a valuable piece and should net a return that is valuable to the long-term fortunes of the organization.

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6 hours ago, Natty said:

Well since you asked...Schoop 2017 .293 BA, 32 HR, 35 2B, 105 RBI, .841 OPS. Dumped him to save money.

Kind of a misleading post.   Schoop had a .720 OPS when he was traded in 2018, and his career OPS to that point in his career was somewhere in the .740’s.   Since then, it’s somewhere in the .730’s.    So his 2017 OPS is not very relevant.  And, they got back a decent player who was under team control for a year longer than Schoop and two minor leaguers with decent profiles, though neither has panned out.    

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Abrams, Brayan Medina, and Luis Gutierrez  for Means. Done and done. 
 

Ring, ring: yeah Giants and Dodgers are both calling about Means. We like Abrams and a couple younger guys, you in or should I call those guys back?  Nope, Abrams or hanging up to dial another California number that’s not SD. 

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7 hours ago, Natty said:

All those trades we have had in the last 5 years have helped us rebuild into the worst record in baseball. Some rebuild, Right?

We would suck now with or without those trades.  The Orioles refused to pay Manny Machado what he's worth, and even if we still had Manny Machado we wouldn't be much better than we are now.  The O's were a very good team between 2012 and 2016, but most of the key players on that team are no longer in MLB.   How many of the players that we let go are still useful major league players today?  

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https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/31503452/mvp-all-30-mlb-teams-far

 

John Means

Means went from an afterthought to an All-Star as a 26-year-old rookie in 2019, and since then has become one of the sport's best-performing starting pitchers. The surface numbers of 2020 -- 2-4 record, 4.53 ERA -- didn't pop, but Means experienced an uptick in velocity, didn't issue many walks and began to dominate toward the tail end of that season. That carried over into 2021, when Means has put up a 1.79 ERA with 64 strikeouts and 11 walks in 65 1/3 innings, adding a no-hitter -- one that should've been a perfect game -- while pitching for one of baseball's least-talented teams. The average exit velocity off him is 85.5 mph, fifth lowest in the majors.

 

 

 I hadn’t seen that exit velocity stat.

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