Hyde postgame presser today

[UMDTerrapins]

I'd rather not lose as much as we have been, obviously. We've been bad in about every facet. But the biggest problem has been starting pitching. After Means and a short burst from Harvey we've been garbage. But Means is still Means. And Akin and Zimmerman put up respectable outings this week. But our return to competitive baseball is all about the wave of pitching coming with Rodriguez/Hall/Bradish/Baumann. Have we had a quartet of live arms with that much potential coming up within a year of each other in recent memory? There are control issues aplenty in that group, but adding those four to Means (if he isn't traded) could provide an incredible boost in competitive baseball, and they're all pushing their way closer to Baltimore. In the meantime, we're locking in another high draft slot. Losing sucks but I have a lot of faith in where we're going. Losing 21 in a rom in 1988 was as low as it gets for a fan. 1989 was one of the most enjoyable years I've ever experienced. I see 2022 in a similar light. But the big difference is that instead of being fueled in large part by guys we got off the scrap heap like we did in 1989, we're looking to kids with years of contralibility and a farm system with depth behind them. This is the part of the fan experience that allows us to have extra satisfaction and pride for sticking with the team through the bad days, once the really good days return again. I don't think it's going to be an excruciating wait from this point. 

[tntoriole]

20 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

The lack of development of the players we hoped would be the beginning of the resurgence has really been the major downer.

I feel bad for Hyde because he does seem to be a good baseball man, but it's hard to know how much say he has in roles of his players and pitchers.

All we know is this team is a disaster and although we all signed up for a rebuild, it's been pretty ugly and we're now in the 3rd season of Elias tenure and the major league team is the worse in baseball still. Not increasingly getting better, but sadly uncompetitive.

Last year, although a shortened season, we saw some promise in Means, Mountcastle, Scott, Santander and Hays for the future. Hays has been hurt twice, and outside of Means, the others have all under performed with Santander being hurt as well.

Regardless of whether the organization turns into a perennial winner or not, they will always have the stain of being an embarrassment to baseball for at least 4 season straight. Grant it one of those seasons was not under Elias' tenure, but the fact he decided to go into this season with such a poor squad shows he really doesn't care about putting even a decent product on the field while he rebuilds from the inside. 

At some point he's going to have to actually care about the major league product and soon because the fan base has withered to the point that fans just don't care or discuss the Orioles outside of the die-hards. And it's hard to be a die-hard when your team has become irrelevant.

 

Agreed...for me, us getting rid of cable has meant no MASN, and I am in a blackout area so no MLB TV either.  But frankly I have not missed watching this season at all 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, UMDTerrapins said:

I'd rather not lose as much as we have been, obviously. We've been bad in about every facet. But the biggest problem has been starting pitching. After Means and a short burst from Harvey we've been garbage. But Means is still Means. And Akin and Zimmerman put up respectable outings this week. But our return to competitive baseball is all about the wave of pitching coming with Rodriguez/Hall/Bradish/Baumann. Have we had a quartet of live arms with that much potential coming up within a year of each other in recent memory? There are control issues aplenty in that group, but adding those four to Means (if he isn't traded) could provide an incredible boost in competitive baseball, and they're all pushing their way closer to Baltimore. In the meantime, we're locking in another high draft slot. Losing sucks but I have a lot of faith in where we're going. Losing 21 in a rom in 1988 was as low as it gets for a fan. 1989 was one of the most enjoyable years I've ever experienced. I see 2022 in a similar light. But the big difference is that instead of being fueled in large part by guys we got off the scrap heap like we did in 1989, we're looking to kids with years of contralibility and a farm system with depth behind them. This is the part of the fan experience that allows us to have extra satisfaction and pride for sticking with the team through the bad days, once the really good days return again. I don't think it's going to be an excruciating wait from this point. 

That fan base was 5 years away from having World Champion to cheer for. The fan base now is a over a generation away from a fan base that was used to a competitive team year in and year out. 

I get the orange colored glasses some of you are wearing, and there are players in the minors that are exciting, but the point is that this organization has not put a major league product on the field since 2017 and honestly, we have nothing to go off of that the current ownership will pay for major league players or that the Elias regime can identify good major league quality players. 

I'm happy to see the organization push some prospects up, but they are going to have to be pretty aggressive because I don't think the fan base can deal with another two years of awful teams.

Again, the fact that the young players have been mostly disappointing this year, has made this year so painful. If the team stunk but Mountcastle, Kremer, Akin, and Zimmermann to a lesser extend, were doing well, it would be easier to take. When you look at Mountcastle's statcast numbers, it time to start being concerned. I looked at top hitters and then looked back to their first couple of seasons and could not find a guy like Mountcastle.

The lack of development at the major league level makes me concerned about the coaching staff as well but maybe these guys just weren't that good? 

I do see some good things happening on the farm but until they come up and perform well at the major league level, they are nothing more than "prospects". 

 

[slakattack]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The fan base now is a over a generation away from a fan base that was used to a competitive team year in and year out. 

 

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

but the point is that this organization has not put a major league product on the field since 2017 and honestly, we have nothing to go off of that the current ownership will pay for major league players

Then why don't they just sell the damn team, or more to the point why didn't they sell the team after the 2014 season? Arrogance? Stupidity? You guys know the history better than I do, but I seem to recall that P.A., after interfering and micro-managing for years, decided to give one of his GM's (MacPhail?) actual decision-making powers and it resulted in the re-build of the organization from the bottom up and also from good trades that were not P.A. directed. Point is - ownership has never wanted to spend on FA pitching and the one time they got talked into in the last 10 years ended in Ubaldo and we know how that went. If your not going to spend anything just sell the team - its value is not going to improve by losing more games.

[drjohnnyfeva]

I like seeing the prospects playing even if they aren't ready for PrimeTime...  I want to believe we are working toward success, but it's hard to maintain that belief.  I'm back to distrusting ownership more than that Elias or Hyde are deficient.  I hope the team is sold.  I seem to just err on the idea that they aren't doing something.

But the prospects should be showing more than they are.  Maybe it's Covid - not getting the practice in - but it seems unlikely given other teams look more prepared.  I'd hate to think losing is by design; which I get to a certain extent, but not wholesale suckitude.

[Can_of_corn]

35 minutes ago, slakattack said:

 

Then why don't they just sell the damn team, or more to the point why didn't they sell the team after the 2014 season?

I can think of a few reasons.

1. Peter is still alive
2. They have some misguided idea that they are saving baseball in Baltimore by continuing owning the team
3. They figure they can make more money sucking profits out of the team and MASN than they can with a sale
4. Their ego won't let them

[spiritof66]

43 minutes ago, slakattack said:

 

Then why don't they just sell the damn team, or more to the point why didn't they sell the team after the 2014 season? Arrogance? Stupidity? You guys know the history better than I do, but I seem to recall that P.A., after interfering and micro-managing for years, decided to give one of his GM's (MacPhail?) actual decision-making powers and it resulted in the re-build of the organization from the bottom up and also from good trades that were not P.A. directed. Point is - ownership has never wanted to spend on FA pitching and the one time they got talked into in the last 10 years ended in Ubaldo and we know how that went. If your not going to spend anything just sell the team - its value is not going to improve by losing more games.

It's kind of a sick game, but selling the team while the current owner is alive will cost the Angeloses hundreds of millions in additional income taxes. 

Try this: take every decision with financial implications made by the Angelos Boys -- the good, the bad and the incomprehensible -- since they took over. Ask yourself, based on the limited information available, whether that decision to spend (and how much) or not spend makes sense if you plan to keep the majority ownership of the team in the family for the long term. Then ask yourself whether that decision makes sense if you're just holding onto it until the current owner's death reduces the tax burden by hundreds of millions. For me, one way of looking at things scores a lot higher than the other. 

[UMDTerrapins]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I get the orange colored glasses some of you are wearing, and there are players in the minors that are exciting, but the point is that this organization has not put a major league product on the field since 2017 and honestly, we have nothing to go off of that the current ownership will pay for major league players or that the Elias regime can identify good major league quality players. 

Orange colored glasses implies a naivety and/or inability to see things for what they are. Having an ability to see through the darkness of the moment is a virtue, not a liability. Your points about coaching and how committed ownership is financially to putting a winner on the field are legitimate and deserved.
 

For me, it all started in 1979. Sometimes dedication, memories, and longevity were the only things that kept me an Oriole fan. I don’t regret any of that. I’ve learned that worrying about future events that the cynic in me thinks will happen rarely produces anything that I actually gain from. I personally feel that the Angelos family has been an incompetent poison for a formerly great organization. There is an infusion of talent coming. If ownership doesn’t provide the payroll needed to augment our home grown pieces to field a pennant contender, I’ll reassess my commitment. Having sustained 13 consecutive seasons, the humility of 1988, and my never ending Angelos loathing, I’m not big on threats like “I’m quitting the Orioles if.......”. I’ll just be gone one day. I’ve honestly considered it many times. But hope is a valuable commodity, one that’s good to nurture. Being hopeful isn’t being naive is my point. 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, UMDTerrapins said:

Orange colored glasses implies a naivety and/or inability to see things for what they are. Having an ability to see through the darkness of the moment is a virtue, not a liability. Your points about coaching and how committed ownership is financially to putting a winner on the field are legitimate and deserved.
 

For me, it all started in 1979. Sometimes dedication, memories, and longevity were the only things that kept me an Oriole fan. I don’t regret any of that. I’ve learned that worrying about future events that the cynic in me thinks will happen rarely produces anything that I actually gain from. I personally feel that the Angelos family has been an incompetent poison for a formerly great organization. There is an infusion of talent coming. If ownership doesn’t provide the payroll needed to augment our home grown pieces to field a pennant contender, I’ll reassess my commitment. Having sustained 13 consecutive seasons, the humility of 1988, and my never ending Angelos loathing, I’m not big on threats like “I’m quitting the Orioles if.......”. I’ll just be gone one day. I’ve honestly considered it many times. But hope is a valuable commodity, one that’s good to nurture. Being hopeful isn’t being naive is my point. 

While I was quoting you, I really didn't mean you per se. Your comments are usually well though out so I apologize if I came off as suggesting you were naïve.

We are the same age so we grew up with a team that was always in contention until the late 80s. We've seen our Franchise go from the proud underdog to a MLB joke. We are the butt of memes and GIFs and JOMBOY just put a whole video on how Lance Lynn was just embarrassing the Orioles hitters with pitches right down the middle.

I've been doing this for a long time and it's just tiring. I'll always be an Orioles fan, but even I find it hard to watch the games nowadays. I spend more time paying attention to the future.

[UMDTerrapins]

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

While I was quoting you, I really didn't mean you per se. Your comments are usually well though out so I apologize if I came off as suggesting you were naïve.

We are the same age so we grew up with a team that was always in contention until the late 80s. We've seen our Franchise go from the proud underdog to a MLB joke. We are the butt of memes and GIFs and JOMBOY just put a whole video on how Lance Lynn was just embarrassing the Orioles hitters with pitches right down the middle.

I've been doing this for a long time and it's just tiring. I'll always be an Orioles fan, but even I find it hard to watch the games nowadays. I spend more time paying attention to the future.

No worries at all. I’ve had two teams in my life, Orioles baseball and Maryland basketball. The common thread is having one individual come along who wrecks what was previously great (Angelos & Turgeon), and seems oblivious to their role in reducing great teams to uninspired garbage. For the O’s I eagerly and patiently await the day that the team is sold. For the Terps I dream of the day that the “you know, our opponent was terrific” king of mediocrity is punted back to the flyover states.
 

I’m like you, I’m spending my attention on the minor league affiliates because the ML product is awful. It’s an immensely frustrating time. We have no Bob Rivers this time to find the levity of the moment. But there’s good reason to be excited. I entered the season musing that if we’re not going to show improvement that I’d just assume we tank our way to a top three pick. I just didn’t think that would happen....I expected we’d find a couple of capable starters after Means. And that Santander/Hays could stay healthy. But it’s a long season that is meaningless other than player development. And there’s been a lot of noteworthy progress with our prospects. This is a throwaway season. I don’t trust Elias to have the Gillick-like sensibility of how to craft a ML roster. Or to hire the right coaches. But I trust in what he’s doing with organizational depth/talent. We’re not there yet, but we’ve got two more top spots in upcoming ML drafts, we’re finally players internationally, and there are a number of interesting young prospects who will be debuting in the next month. 
 

I like where we’re headed. And I hope in saying that, other fans whose frustrations are boiling over feel some comfort in hearing people say with conviction that better days are ahead. And they are. 
 

Cheers!

[Frobby]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:03 PM, Can_of_corn said:

Right, and that is also true of the other teams.

You don't expect to go into the season and not have injuries.  Paritcialy when you have guys like...Hays, Santander, Stewart and Diaz that have histories of injuries.

I believe the White Sox are playing without Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert.

[SteveA]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I believe the White Sox are playing without Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert.

And Tim Anderson missed the first game of the series.

[MDtransplant757]

20 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Lunhow built a good team in Houston, and they are going to have to be much better here than they were in Houston.  I don't foresee the current ownership ever devoting the same level of resources or payroll.

Not to mention that in 2017 - 2019 when Houston won the division three years in a row the AL west had a total of three other teams over .500 (okaland in 18 and 19, Seattle in 18).  The Orioles will never have that luxury in the AL East.

 

I'd argue that they might. Yankees will have a ton of tough choices coming up because you can't pay everyone and keep Judge, Torres, Sanchez with more bloated contracts to come. Tampa will always be resourceful and think quickly, Boston's high tier talent has no depth, and in a few years they'll probably bottom out. Toronto's entering their window and will probably be competitive for a shorter period than we will be. Thankfully there are two wild card spots, so we'll see. Even if they in theory don't have that, we can still win if the talent is there. 

[Uli2001]

18 hours ago, slakattack said:

 

Then why don't they just sell the damn team, or more to the point why didn't they sell the team after the 2014 season? Arrogance? Stupidity? You guys know the history better than I do, but I seem to recall that P.A., after interfering and micro-managing for years, decided to give one of his GM's (MacPhail?) actual decision-making powers and it resulted in the re-build of the organization from the bottom up and also from good trades that were not P.A. directed. Point is - ownership has never wanted to spend on FA pitching and the one time they got talked into in the last 10 years ended in Ubaldo and we know how that went. If your not going to spend anything just sell the team - its value is not going to improve by losing more games.

The Angelos family gets way too much credit for being "local" and "keeping the team in Baltimore." Those do not begin to outweigh 3 decades of futility (minus a handful of competitive seasons, no championships).

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

5 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

The Angelos family gets way too much credit for being "local" and "keeping the team in Baltimore." Those do not begin to outweigh 3 decades of futility (minus a handful of competitive seasons, no championships).

I think the Angelos sons can get a little bit of a pass - they hired Elias and committed to an organizational rebuild, moves that were highly praised across the league. It's unfair to condemn them for dumb stuff their dad did.

The bigger issue right now is Elias & Co can't find major league talent outside of high draft picks. Any GM should be expected to be able to do that. And many of the Orioles prospects were inherited from DD's regime. 

The tradeoff for tanking should have results that justify the cost. Right now, that isn't happening. The O's are tanking, really killing their fan base, and basically have Heston Kjerstad and Gunnar Henderson  to show for it. I don't really think we can credit Elias for Adley because he walked into a team that already had that pick and it was a no-brainer. And DL Hall and GrayRod already looked good before his arrival. There just isn't a lot we can solely credit Elias with three years in.

 A big test for the Angelos sons will be what they do if this level of progress continues.