Olney on O’s losing

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

Oh, to clarify I just meant like, next season or whenever they are ready and there's a need in the rotation. I'm just hoping to see some of our guys have some success at some point when called upon. I agree about Baumann and Zimm. Wells for me is doing what Hunter Harvey did and showing us that his true role is a backend reliever. Looks like he likes it, too. Encouraged by Harvey and Lopez. 

Tyler Wells came through the minors as a starter.  He is only in the pen because he is jumping from AA to the majors while coming off TJ surgery.    I believe Elias/Hyde will stretch him out in ST then decided if he is more valuable as a starter or in the pen.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

41 minutes ago, interloper said:

It's wild just how many guys are possibilities for SP and how exactly none of them have worked out so far. Holding out hope for the next group of Bradish/Byrnovich/Smith... 

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning, since the world's been turning

 

[TonySoprano]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Here is what intelligence does:

Andrew Friedman joined the Rays in 2004  as Director of Baseball Development.  After the 2005 season he was named GM.  What was the first thing he did.  He tanked.  That allowed him to draft Evan Longoria with 3rd pick in the draft and the following year he drafted David Price with the #1 pick in the draft.

If you consider going from 67 wins (2005) to 61 wins (2006)  and back to 66 wins (2007)"tanking,"  then you are usually a different dictionary than me.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

If you consider going from 67 wins (2005) to 61 wins (2006)  and back to 66 wins (2007)b"tanking,"  then you are usually a different dictionary than me.

I’ll get into this more in a few days, but between 1998 and 2005 the Rays drafted and signed 233.6 rWAR worth of talent.   That’s a ton.   Needless to say, they were picking high all of those years.   But if you look at their 2008 team, 5 of their top 6 pitchers (by rWAR) came in trades and their top hitter (Carlos Pena) was signed relatively cheaply as a free agent.  

[eddie83]

14 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

If you consider going from 67 wins (2005) to 61 wins (2006)  and back to 66 wins (2007)"tanking,"  then you are usually a different dictionary than me.

They picked 3,1,1 overall from those years and averaged 97 losses a season. Call it whatever you want they picked high. 

[interloper]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Tyler Wells came through the minors as a starter.  He is only in the pen because he is jumping from AA to the majors while coming off TJ surgery.    I believe Elias/Hyde will stretch him out in ST then decided if he is more valuable as a starter or in the pen.

I'm definitely not against seeing what that would look like. 

[eddie83]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’ll get into this more in a few days, but between 1998 and 2005 the Rays drafted and signed 233.6 rWAR worth of talent.   That’s a ton.   Needless to say, they were picking high all of those years.   But if you look at their 2008 team, 5 of their top 6 pitchers (by rWAR) came in trades and their top hitter (Carlos Pena) was signed relatively cheaply as a free agent.  

Which is the exact trifecta any GM, big or small market wants to pull off. 
 

Draft/Int 

Undervalued assets 

Trades 

 

I know you aren’t saying this but Elias is not trying to whiff on those 3 fronts. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Which is the exact trifecta any GM, big or small market wants to pull off. 
 

Draft/Int 

Undervalued assets 

Trades 

 

I know you aren’t saying this but Elias is not trying to whiff on those 3 fronts. 

I never went up to the plate trying to whiff either.

I whiffed a lot.

[eddie83]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I never went up to the plate trying to whiff either.

I whiffed a lot.

So it’s all about spending then.
 

This is 100% about that. 

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I never went up to the plate trying to whiff either.

I whiffed a lot.

Too early to say if he whiffed on trades or the draft. I think it's a fair criticism to say he's whiffed on finding undervalued guys (although I don't necessarily agree with that either, but it's not an unfair criticism). 

But guys from the Bundy/Givens/Castro/Bleier trades are still developing and we're close to seeing if they'll be useful or not. 

And the drafts I think are looking ok so far, it's just whether or not you would have preferred other guys or more pitchers, etc. But certainly not in "whiff" category yet by any stretch. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Too early to say if he whiffed on trades or the draft. I think it's a fair criticism to say he's whiffed on finding undervalued guys (although I don't necessarily agree with that either, but it's not an unfair criticism). 

But guys from the Bundy/Givens/Castro/Bleier trades are still developing and we're close to seeing if they'll be useful or not. 

And the drafts I think are looking ok so far, it's just whether or not you would have preferred other guys or more pitchers, etc. But certainly not in "whiff" category yet by any stretch. 

I wasn't saying Elias whiffed.  Just that trying isn't the same as doing.

I agree it is too early to make much of a judgement.

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I wasn't saying Elias whiffed.  Just that trying isn't the same as doing.

I agree it is too early to make much of a judgement.

Yeah word. 

[Aristotelian]

9 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I think the point is that being a completely non competitive team for this long is absurd and not necessary and not the way things should be done.

And he’s right.

If anyone wants to fix it they should fix the system. Saying it is "just wrong" is completely unhelpful.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If anyone wants to fix it they should fix the system. Saying it is "just wrong" is completely unhelpful.

How is Buster supposed to fix it?

He's a journalist, he fixes things by bringing problems to light.

 

[TonySoprano]

36 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

They picked 3,1,1 overall from those years and averaged 97 losses a season. Call it whatever you want they picked high. 

 Big difference between not improving the product and not crashing the product (tanking).