Orioles signing Rougned Odor

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The thing is Tony, plans change.  Guys get better quicker, guys come out of nowhere, guys fail, etc….I think he absolutely discussed this with ownership and it’s a big reason why he was hired..because they don’t want to spend on the payroll.  They hired the perfect GM for their way of thinking.

That said, if ownership said you can take the payroll to 75m this year, I don’t think he says, no thanks, im staying at 40M.

Maybe, who knows? This process has been painful from a fan standpoint at the major league level, but I can see it coming to an end and yes, I do believe losing and losing a lot was part of the plan in order to get those top picks and more importantly, that big bonus pool that's he's used to add a lot of depth. Let's see where we are at the end of 2022 before getting too upset or happy. 

[Moose Milligan]

I've kind of come down off the initial hatred of this move.  Don't get me wrong, I still don't like it...but after reading a lot of the posts here, it's a few things.  First, it's an obvious stopgap move...our middle infield prospects might not be beating down the door right now, and that's okay.  Hopefully some are ready to come up halfway through 2022 or be on the opening day roster in 2023.

Second, it could be Yolmer Sanchez version 2.0.  Might not even make it out of Spring Training.  That's a very real possibility.

Now...I will straight up hate this move if it takes away at bats from Urias.  

Most of my initial reaction was not necessarily about Odor himself, but the idea that we're heading down a typical Elias/Orioles path of an offseason, which is low-cost retreads.  Low risk, low upside placeholders.  The juxtaposition of high quality free agents flying off the market compared to our signing of a player who'd probably not be invited to anyones Spring Training is, to me, a signal of where the front office's headspace is and what they're focused on.  That's the most irksome part of this whole thing...how are you spending your time?  What are you focused on?  Who else is on your board of free agents that you want?

So...how this plays out remains to be seen from an Odor perspective.  But from a strategy perspective, from a perspective of seeing what this front office is focusing on and has been focused on for years...this still sucks.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Maybe, who knows? This process has been painful from a fan standpoint at the major league level, but I can see it coming to an end and yes, I do believe losing and losing a lot was part of the plan in order to get those top picks and more importantly, that big bonus pool that's he's used to add a lot of depth. Let's see where we are at the end of 2022 before getting too upset or happy. 

I understand the reasoning behind this, but I'm getting fed up.  I don't want to see where we are at the end of 2022.  I'm tired of seeing this franchise do the bare minimum each and every offseason.  Hell, we probably don't get a Rule 5 pick this year, how else are we going to add ML talent to the roster?  

Depending on what the new CBA is, Rutschman could be here on the Opening Day roster.  If not, then he'll be up after a few weeks once the Orioles are done playing the roster game.   G-Rod should be up at some point this summer, too.

It's time to get some good players on the roster to compliment them.  I was vocal about Ed-Rod and Matz, I also wanted Robbie Ray headed into this offseason before he won the CYA and priced himself out of what this team would spend.  Didn't even realize that Kluber was a free agent until he signed with Tampa, but that would have been a good move for us, too.  

We've got the #1 pick in the draft this year.  We've finally got a farm system that's working in the international markets and it looks like that work is starting to pay off.  We've got the best position prospect in the game and the best pitching prospect in the game and our system is as deep as it's ever been, probably the deepest system that I can remember.

Speaking for myself, I don't need to see where we are at the end of 2022.  I know where this franchise is right now and it's time for them to start adding good talent to the ML roster.  

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Speaking for myself, I don't need to see where we are at the end of 2022.  I know where this franchise is right now and it's time for them to start adding good talent to the ML roster.  

Sure, that's an understandable view point, especially from a frustrated fan. First, the Orioles would have to overpay both of those guys to come to a 110 loss team, pitching half their games in Camden Yards and against the AL East competition. Even if they signed both of those guys, do you think we are ready to compete in 2022? I don't. 

A 20 win improvement would be huge, and that still makes us a 90 loss team. The reason I say you see where we are at the end of 2022 because by then you will have a better understanding of your current talent and close prospects and be able to start looking at adding good players through trade of free agency in the the 2022-23 offseason. Then, if the team improves to .500 or better hopefully, you then go get those final pieces in the 23-24 offseason. 

Then you have a competing team from 2024 onward.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

While I don't think the team is for sale I don't think that building the facility in any way shows the team isn't for sale.

Spending 10M on that facility is going to make the team more attractive to buyers and probably increase the value of the franchise by at least the 10M they will be spending.  From what I've read the Orioles were the only team without a facility of that approximate type.  If I'm buying a team that's a feature I'm expecting to be in place.

I contest the premise that a team with low attendance and a low payroll is a more attractive purchase target than a team with high attendance and a higher payroll, and will get a higher purchase price.  If I’m buying a team, the price is determined by the ability to be profitable on a sustained basis, and also whether the team is in a situation to become a winning organization.  

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Sure, that's an understandable view point, especially from a frustrated fan. First, the Orioles would have to overpay both of those guys to come to a 110 loss team, pitching half their games in Camden Yards and against the AL East competition. Even if they signed both of those guys, do you think we are ready to compete in 2022? I don't. 

A 20 win improvement would be huge, and that still makes us a 90 loss team. The reason I say you see where we are at the end of 2022 because by then you will have a better understanding of your current talent and close prospects and be able to start looking at adding good players through trade of free agency in the the 2022-23 offseason. Then, if the team improves to .500 or better hopefully, you then go get those final pieces in the 23-24 offseason. 

Then you have a competing team from 2024 onward.

Sure, and I get that.  But I think the Orioles are going to have to overpay regardless.  And you're right, a 20 win improvement would be huge, and it'd still be 90 losses.

But IMO, you've gotta get to that 70-75 win mark some how, some way.  Might as well try to do it now.   You're going to have to get pieces at the .500 level no matter what, just a matter of time.  

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Maybe, who knows? This process has been painful from a fan standpoint at the major league level, but I can see it coming to an end and yes, I do believe losing and losing a lot was part of the plan in order to get those top picks and more importantly, that big bonus pool that's he's used to add a lot of depth. Let's see where we are at the end of 2022 before getting too upset or happy. 

Improvement should happen now…not at the end of next year.  Losing on purpose again and not caring about the on field product should not be on the table for this year.

Im astonished that anyone would be ok with the same stuff we have seen for the last several offseasons.  To each their own I guess.

otoh, you are expecting a 20+ win improvement just from within.  I think that’s really high but it is something I would be happy with if that happened.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I contest the premise that a team with low attendance and a low payroll is a more attractive purchase target than a team with high attendance and a higher payroll, and will get a higher purchase price.  If I’m buying a team, the price is determined by the ability to be profitable on a sustained basis, and also whether the team is in a situation to become a winning organization.  

The Orioles are very much profitable.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The Orioles are very much profitable.

They are right now.   I’ve said as much.   But being terrible all the time is not a good way to stay profitable.  

[sportsfan8703]

The cold hard truth is that this team isn’t going to compete until we have a starting rotation. This teams still has to figure out what we have in Akin, Zimmerman, Lowther, Wells, Kremer, Baumann, and Bradish. 
 

The lineup looks “good” once AR is up. Only 1-2 real weak spots, and those are some combo of SS, 3B, and 2B, but most MLB teams have that issue. 
 

The bullpen is dependent upon the rotation. It’s darn near impossible to have a good pen if it’s getting asked to pitch 5 innings a night. However, it does appear the bullpen could take a big step forward. 
 

The W/L record might not drastically improve in 2022, but there will be a lot more bright spots on the MLB team than 2021. Hopefully a SP or two develops behind Means. 

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Sure, that's an understandable view point, especially from a frustrated fan. First, the Orioles would have to overpay both of those guys to come to a 110 loss team, pitching half their games in Camden Yards and against the AL East competition. Even if they signed both of those guys, do you think we are ready to compete in 2022? I don't. 

 

I agree and I think this is the key point. Those who want a big signing now are asking Elias to make an overpay to get someone good to come here. Rangers notwithstanding, I just don't think that makes sense when you are coming off 52 wins. So for now we are stuck looking at guys willing to come here on team friendly deals. 

I think Elias expected to be further along in the rebuild by now but we are behind due to COVID and last year's class being absolutely terrible. We still have Chris Davis's money on the books. It's just an awful situation but making an overpay now just to get to 70 wins is not the way to go. Hopefully we get closer with the combination of Adley and Grayson and some of last year's guys performing as we think they should and then we have a better case for free agents to come here without having to overpay. 

[Ruzious]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Why should we think they will go after a better alternative?

I can't read their minds, but why would you assume committing such a small amount to Odor precludes them from doing something more?  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

I agree and I think this is the key point. Those who want a big signing now are asking Elias to make an overpay to get someone good to come here. Rangers notwithstanding, I just don't think that makes sense when you are coming off 52 wins. So for now we are stuck looking at guys willing to come here on team friendly deals. 

I think Elias expected to be further along in the rebuild by now but we are behind due to COVID and last year's class being absolutely terrible. We still have Chris Davis's money on the books. It's just an awful situation but making an overpay now just to get to 70 wins is not the way to go. Hopefully we get closer with the combination of Adley and Grayson and some of last year's guys performing as we think they should and then we have a better case for free agents to come here without having to overpay. 

You ALWAYS have to overpay good FAs, no matter who are you.  That’s why FA isn’t the way you want to build your team.

If the Os have to pay an extra 2-5M a year to get a guy right now, so what?  Their payroll is nothing and it will be nothing for quite some time.  The little bit of extra money isn’t going to damage anything.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

I can't read their minds, but why would you assume committing such a small amount to Odor precludes them from doing something more?  

Oh it doesn’t stop them from doing it..it’s their choice to not do more and it has been since Elias got here and Elias has basically already told us they don’t care about 2022 either.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Improvement should happen now…not at the end of next year.  Losing on purpose again and not caring about the on field product should not be on the table for this year.

Im astonished that anyone would be ok with the same stuff we have seen for the last several offseasons.  To each their own I guess.

otoh, you are expecting a 20+ win improvement just from within.  I think that’s really high but it is something I would be happy with if that happened.

I don't know if you are just being hard headed at this point or just digging in your heals, but I don't think that's what this year is about at all.

The Orioles are in a different spot in any previous year because they legitimate, major league or major league ready players and pitchers to play this year.

2022  vs 2021

C- Rutschman > Severino
1B: Mouncastle year two > Mountcastle rookie season
2B - Urias > Valaika/Wilkeson/Rio/Urias 2021
SS - Mateo < Galvis (The Orioles still need some work here unless they really believe Mateo is a full time SS)
3B - Gutierrez > Franco
UTL- Odor > Valaika/Martin
LF - Hays (27) >= Hays (26)
CF - Mullins = Mullins
RF - Santander (healthy) > Santander
DH - Mancini 2 years removed from cancer >= Mancini
SP - Means = Means
SP - T Wells > Harvey
SP - Lowther > Lopez
SP  - Zimmemann > Zimmermann hurt
SP - Bradish/Baumann/A. Wells/Akin/Kremer (?) > Watkins/Kremer

I think it's very realistic that we can improve 20 games from within and this doesn't even account for Rodriguez and Stowers being ready at some point.