MLB Lockout Thread

[Moshagge3]

The cynical interpretation of the tweets from Heyman, Nightengale, etc. would be that the owners are eager to instill some optimism so that when the players walk away from a ridiculous lowball offer from MLB tomorrow, it looks like they're the ones who blew it up and dashed everyone's hopes. That unfortunately sounds like just the game the owners are playing here.

[Sports Guy]

Seems unlikely a deal happens.

The bigger question to me, if we assume there is no deal, what happens next?  When do they negotiate again?

And, what changes?

[forphase1]

49 minutes ago, seak05 said:

Except most of the players aren't millionaires. The average career length is only 5.6 years, which under baseball's current system doesn't even get you to free agency. And the minimum salary in baseball is the lowest of any of the professional leagues (it's still a good salary, but it's not going to make you a millionaire, and your peak earning years are very few). And yet, you seem to want the players to capitulate to billionaire owners because the minimum wage overall in this country is to low. 

Just to nitpick a bit, and while we can argue the exact numbers, based on what you posted of the average career length being 5.6 years and the baseball current minimum of 570k, that equals almost 3.2 million.  I'd say that by most reasonable definitions and situations that someone making 3.2 million over a 5.6 year period would be a millionaire, but I suppose if they were REALLY bad with their money over that 5.6 years, they would never reach a true 'millionaire' status.  

[forphase1]

33 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Seems unlikely a deal happens.

The bigger question to me, if we assume there is no deal, what happens next?  When do they negotiate again?

And, what changes?

Yeah if a deal doesn't get done tomorrow, I'm not sure where we go from there.  It's incredibly stupid that it's gotten to this point, but both sides are being so stubborn they are threatening to kill the golden goose, as it were.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

I definitely would trust Britton over Ubaldo.

Truer words were never spoken. 

 

[Bahama O's Fan]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Seems unlikely a deal happens.

The bigger question to me, if we assume there is no deal, what happens next?  When do they negotiate again?

And, what changes?

I think if they can't come to an agreement tomorrow and games get canceled, they will both back off for a while, stop meeting and try to win the publicity battle.

[seak05]

1 hour ago, forphase1 said:

Just to nitpick a bit, and while we can argue the exact numbers, based on what you posted of the average career length being 5.6 years and the baseball current minimum of 570k, that equals almost 3.2 million.  I'd say that by most reasonable definitions and situations that someone making 3.2 million over a 5.6 year period would be a millionaire, but I suppose if they were REALLY bad with their money over that 5.6 years, they would never reach a true 'millionaire' status.  

Except that millionaire is defined by your assets, not your salary multiplied over time. You aren’t accounting for taxes, agent fees, and a whole host of expenses. Even if you want to argue that most players are a millionaire at the end of their careers, that status is unlikely to last very long, as their employment ends. It’s true that players make a lot of money from baseball, but this idea that everyone who makes the majors suddenly has generational wealth is false. 
 

The fact of the matter is the owners wealth is multiple orders of magnitude larger then the players, and the owners will make more money off of baseball then the players will as well. 
 

I get people being frustrated at the potential loss of games, but this whole well they’re both rich so I’m going to blame both sides, is both unfair and ignores the reality that both sides aren’t actually rich. 

[forphase1]

12 minutes ago, seak05 said:

Except that millionaire is defined by your assets, not your salary multiplied over time. You aren’t accounting for taxes, agent fees, and a whole host of expenses. Even if you want to argue that most players are a millionaire at the end of their careers, that status is unlikely to last very long, as their employment ends. It’s true that players make a lot of money from baseball, but this idea that everyone who makes the majors suddenly has generational wealth is false. 
 

The fact of the matter is the owners wealth is multiple orders of magnitude larger then the players, and the owners will make more money off of baseball then the players will as well. 
 

I get people being frustrated at the potential loss of games, but this whole well they’re both rich so I’m going to blame both sides, is both unfair and ignores the reality that both sides aren’t actually rich. 

Which is why I said unless they were really bad with their money....If someone makes 3.2 million over 6 years, they SHOULD acquire 1M in assets (cash, houses, property, investments, etc) unless they are foolishly spending their money.  I never claimed that everyone who makes the majors has generational wealth, as we all know there are many players who only get a cup of coffee at most and never financially benefit largely from all the time they put into their baseball careers.  

And I don't disagree that the owners are richer than the players.  So?  Last time I checked, that's true in 99.99% of the jobs/industries in the world.  Owners of business do (and in my opinion SHOULD) have more money than their employees/workers, even workers as valuable as an athlete.

And yes, both sides ARE actually rich.  That doesn't mean that every single baseball player is rich, but a great many of them are.  We were just complaining about our signing of Odor, a player who has made north of $35 million.  Sure, there are those with a super short MLB career who never get more than a couple 100k.  But even journeymen like Ryan Flaherty can make almost 7 million over a 8 year career.  The average American salary is roughly $55,000.  At that rate it would take an average American 127 years to earn what Flaherty did in 7 years.  Sorry, but to me that's rich.  Your average American has every right to blame both sides as both are rich, and it IS billionaires fighting against millionaires.

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Which is why I said unless they were really bad with their money....If someone makes 3.2 million over 6 years, they SHOULD acquire 1M in assets (cash, houses, property, investments, etc) unless they are foolishly spending their money.  I never claimed that everyone who makes the majors has generational wealth, as we all know there are many players who only get a cup of coffee at most and never financially benefit largely from all the time they put into their baseball careers.  

And I don't disagree that the owners are richer than the players.  So?  Last time I checked, that's true in 99.99% of the jobs/industries in the world.  Owners of business do (and in my opinion SHOULD) have more money than their employees/workers, even workers as valuable as an athlete.

And yes, both sides ARE actually rich.  That doesn't mean that every single baseball player is rich, but a great many of them are.  We were just complaining about our signing of Odor, a player who has made north of $35 million.  Sure, there are those with a super short MLB career who never get more than a couple 100k.  But even journeymen like Ryan Flaherty can make almost 7 million over a 8 year career.  The average American salary is roughly $55,000.  At that rate it would take an average American 127 years to earn what Flaherty did in 7 years.  Sorry, but to me that's rich.  Your average American has every right to blame both sides as both are rich, and it IS billionaires fighting against millionaires.

God bless Ryan Flaherty,  He used every ounce of his God given talent to earn that $7 million.  As for Odor, he provided at least $35 million in enjoyment to baseball fans when he punched Bautista in the face. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

6 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Which is why I said unless they were really bad with their money....If someone makes 3.2 million over 6 years, they SHOULD acquire 1M in assets (cash, houses, property, investments, etc) unless they are foolishly spending their money.  I never claimed that everyone who makes the majors has generational wealth, as we all know there are many players who only get a cup of coffee at most and never financially benefit largely from all the time they put into their baseball careers.  

And I don't disagree that the owners are richer than the players.  So?  Last time I checked, that's true in 99.99% of the jobs/industries in the world.  Owners of business do (and in my opinion SHOULD) have more money than their employees/workers, even workers as valuable as an athlete.

And yes, both sides ARE actually rich.  That doesn't mean that every single baseball player is rich, but a great many of them are.  We were just complaining about our signing of Odor, a player who has made north of $35 million.  Sure, there are those with a super short MLB career who never get more than a couple 100k.  But even journeymen like Ryan Flaherty can make almost 7 million over a 8 year career.  The average American salary is roughly $55,000.  At that rate it would take an average American 127 years to earn what Flaherty did in 7 years.  Sorry, but to me that's rich.  Your average American has every right to blame both sides as both are rich, and it IS billionaires fighting against millionaires.

And while I am not taking the side of the owners, the players, almost all of them, had the opportunity of a free college education with no student loans to leave them saddled with debt. They should be educated and able to acquire steady employment once leaving baseball. 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

And while I am not taking the side of the owners, the players, almost all of them, had the opportunity of a free college education with no student loans to leave them saddled with debt. They should be educated and able to acquire steady employment once leaving baseball. 

I had no idea college baseball was a big thing in Latin America.  

Weird we don't see a lot of them playing in the States after they get their degrees.

 

Also college baseball doesn't give out a ton of full scholarships.

[Sports Guy]

First of all, this is a dumb idea but secondly, why are they even spending time on this?

This type of thing is what makes me think a deal isn’t getting done.  Why even discuss trivial things like this when it’s the big issues that separate the 2 sides?

[eddie83]

I kept thinking they would announce a deal last second. Obviously now not so sure. To me the owners should be happy. FA hasn’t been pushed earlier. They may not view it this way but much of what’s left to me is not changing things dramatically. 
 

This is such a bad look for a sport that already has to compete with the NFL 365 days a year. The NFL is a 12 month a year topic. Baseball is a topic now for the wrong reasons. 

[eddie83]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

First of all, this is a dumb idea but secondly, why are they even spending time on this?

This type of thing is what makes me think a deal isn’t getting done.  Why even discuss trivial things like this when it’s the big issues that separate the 2 sides?

I will be furious if they go to a 7 team per league playoff. Have no desire to see a 99 win 2 seed have to beat the 7th best record of 83-79. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, eddie83 said:

I will be furious if they go to a 7 team per league playoff. Have no desire to see a 99 win 2 seed have to beat the 7th best record of 83-79. 

Even if the Orioles are the 83 win team? 

Here is your competitive balance and your anit-tanking as a two for one.  If enough teams make the playoffs and any team can win a short series then everyone can have a shot at the WS every year.  Isn't this what fans are clamoring for?