Jordan Westburg 2022

[Tony-OH]

Made his major league 2022 spring training debut and came and at 2B while Ortiz played SS. Westburg played SS and 3B last year in his 1st professional season. 

Westburg's arm strength fits better at 2B though it can play at SS for routine plays.

[Frobby]

40 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Made his major league 2022 spring training debut and came and at 2B while Ortiz played SS. Westburg played SS and 3B last year in his 1st professional season. 

Westburg's arm strength fits better at 2B though it can play at SS for routine plays.

I think Westburg might be an adequate major league SS, but clearly Ortiz is the better defender.   If the two of them were in the same major league lineup, you’d certainly expect Ortiz to be the SS.   But, I suspect at Bowie, the O’s will continue to get Westburg and Henderson playing time there even if Ortiz also starts the year at Bowie.   

[Brooks The Great]

I stated last season that Westburg profiles as the O's future 2B, with Ortiz and Gunnar as SS's and Mayo at 3B.

A great problem to have would be if Ortiz sticks as a major league SS, moving Gunnar to 3B and Mayo to RF.

[Just Regular]

This will be indecipherable unless it isn't, but Jordan Westburg got a $6 bid in the active roster phase of Tout Wars AL only yesterday.

It basically means one pundit guesses he will play SS for the ORIOLES as much as anyone THIS year.

Mateo. v. Urias v. Ortiz v. Westburg I could imagine going any number of ways.   As with quarterbacks I feel it is true of shortstops...if you've got two, you've got none.    Ortiz, Westburg and Henderson are three guys that might establish themselves for the gig.

Pat Valaika, on the other hand, is now with ATL.

[seak05]

Does this seem accurate?

ortiz is a major league SS defensively, but might not have the bat 

westburg is a fringe major league SS defensively due to arm strength, but should have the bat 

Henderson has potential major league SS tools in terms of range and arm strength, but needs to improve hands/accuracy to stick. And should have the bat (so highest ceiling, but also most likely to have to move out of MI) 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, seak05 said:

Does this seem accurate?

ortiz is a major league SS defensively, but might not have the bat 

westburg is a fringe major league SS defensively due to arm strength, but should have the bat 

Henderson has potential major league SS tools in terms of range and arm strength, but needs to improve hands/accuracy to stick. And should have the bat (so highest ceiling, but also most likely to have to move out of MI) 

Cal was 6'4".  Gunnar is 6'2".   I don't know how much danger there is of Gunnar moving off SS.   Gunnar's range may be better than Ortiz or  Westburg.  Now if you are saying that Gunnar may need to move off SS at 28 then that is more likely IMO.  But he is currently 20.

The thing about Ortiz so far is he doesn't make hardly any errors and he looks like a SS.   Between Ortiz and Gunnar at SS we need to see more but nice problem to have.

 

[Ruzious]

I'd love to see us play the last 2 months of the season with Ortiz at SS and Wesburg at 2B - with both having success. 

I'm skeptical about Henderson - he's a high ceiling prospect - but I think he has a lower floor than our other top infield prospects.  I wouldn't mind seeing him go as part of a trade to a team that values him particularly highly - for a high ceiling pitcher.  I see our future infield with Ortiz, Westburg, and Mayo (and obvy  Mountcastle) - with Norby coming up on the outside and Vavra at super-utility.    

  

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

I'd love to see us play the last 2 months of the season with Ortiz at SS and Wesburg at 2B - with both having success. 

I'm skeptical about Henderson - he's a high ceiling prospect - but I think he has a lower floor than our other top infield prospects.  I wouldn't mind seeing him go as part of a trade to a team that values him particularly highly - for a high ceiling pitcher.  I see our future infield with Ortiz, Westburg, and Mayo (and obvy  Mountcastle) - with Norby coming up on the outside and Vavra at super-utility.    

  

What makes you think Gunnar has a low floor?  The kid will be 20 playing in AA.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

What makes you think Gunnar has a low floor?  The kid will be 20 playing in AA.

His OPS in 2021 was 251 points lower against left handed pitching.

[wildcard]

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

His OPS in 2021 was 251 points lower against left handed pitching.

Really?  He is 20 and played at three levels last season ending in AA.  Little early to make him a platoon player and say his floor is low.   How about waiting until he is at least 22.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildcard said:

Really?  He is 20 and played at three levels last season ending in AA.  Little early to make him a platoon player and say his floor is low.   How about waiting until he is at least 22.

Man you are good at taking a little bit of data and extrapolating it.

Let's go back and check the tape.

Ruzious stated that he thought Gunnar had a lower floor (not low, lower).

You then fired back.

I showed how his splits might lead someone to come to that conclusion.

Now you are suddenly claiming that I'm making him a platoon player and saying his floor is low.

Did I say either of those things?

Are his splits something that should be noted and could be a valid reason for why someone might have the opinion  that he might have a lower floor?

[Just Regular]

K rate is another low floor proxy.

Any bad minor league K rate - there's the chance MLB pitchers will dominate you so thoroughly you'll get the Gary Sanchez/Mike Zunino .175 batting average, and it doesn't really matter much how big your defensive or secondary skills are.

Henderson and Stowers will start the year with I feel similar ranges (say 27.5-37.5) of likely outcomes at K rate, and at the bad end of those ranges, it is perhaps....not ready for MLB at all, never mind the "you don't come up until you're ready to stay up" standard Elias enjoys speaking of.

Come on minor league opening night, just 14 days away.

 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Man you are good at taking a little bit of data and extrapolating it.

Let's go back and check the tape.

Ruzious stated that he thought Gunnar had a lower floor (not low, lower).

You then fired back.

I showed how his splits might lead someone to come to that conclusion.

Now you are suddenly claiming that I'm making him a platoon player and saying his floor is low.

Did I say either of those things?

Are his splits something that should be noted and could be a valid reason for why someone might have the opinion  that he might have a lower floor?

Actually I think I was pretty balanced since Ruzious said  he was skepical about Gunnar's high ceiling and would not mind trading him.    Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that is one I don't agree with.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Just Regular said:

K rate is another low floor proxy.

Any bad minor league K rate - there's the chance MLB pitchers will dominate you so thoroughly you'll get the Gary Sanchez/Mike Zunino .175 batting average, and it doesn't really matter much how big your defensive or secondary skills are.

Henderson and Stowers will start the year with I feel similar ranges (say 27.5-37.5) of likely outcomes at K rate, and at the bad end of those ranges, it is perhaps....not ready for MLB at all, never mind the "you don't come up until you're ready to stay up" standard Elias enjoys speaking of.

Come on minor league opening night, just 14 days away.

 

The K rate is the biggest issue to me, then the problem with left-handed pitching that CoC mentioned, and then inconsistent fielding.  I still think he has a high ceiling, but I think there are reasons to believe he's less of a sure thing to succeed than the other players I mentioned.  

[Ruzious]

11 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Actually I think I was pretty balanced since Ruzious said  he was skepical about Gunnar's high ceiling and would not mind trading him.    Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that is one I don't agree with.

I'm a Westburg guy more than a Henderson guy - someone who may not have quite the ceiling that Henderson has - but does have good potential and has fewer questions about his likelihood to reach his potential.