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Can't believe the Orioles are going to Arbitration with Means and Mancini

Tony-OH

By Tony-OH
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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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10 minutes ago, Natty said:

I hate to say it, but Means has not been able to pitch a season without getting hurt. His arbitration value is gone now.

Wasn't Means slated to get 3.2M this year from arbitration? 

Read two posts up from yours for the Means Arb bid and ask.  

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Frobby
Frobby

So at the end of the day, they all settled.  Much wasted breath about nothing IMO.

Aristotelian
Aristotelian

For what it's worth several teams out there failed to come to terms with more players than the O's. Doesn't seem like the O's are far outside the norm here, and we have a pretty stellar track record o

Frobby
Frobby

The White Sox and Lucas Giolito are going to arbitration over $200,000.   The World Champion Braves are going to arbitration with five of their players who helped them win the World Series, including

OriolesMagic83 Hangout Grand Counsel

OriolesMagic83

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Natty said:

I hate to say it, but Means has not been able to pitch a season without getting hurt. His arbitration value is gone now.

Wasn't Means slated to get 3.2M this year from arbitration? 

His injury and any innings he pitched this year won't be considered in his arbitration.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, Natty said:

About Means...So what should the Orioles do? What teams are going to take a chance on Means until they see he can pitch a full season? 

He's making little enough money that if the rehab is going well it's probably the right move to offer him arbitration for next year.

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btdart20 Hangout Veteran Council

btdart20

Posted
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1 hour ago, Natty said:

About Means...So what should the Orioles do? What teams are going to take a chance on Means until they see he can pitch a full season? 

Pay him what he gets in the arb hearing.  It's not like it'll be $17m.  Then see what happens after rehab...  Tough break for Means and the O's.

1 hour ago, Natty said:

He pitched 2 games. 

The arbitration hearings should have taken place in the off season.  But the lockout...  So this year's stats/games mean nothing in the case.  He'll get paid for past performance.  (Or at least that's how it should work.  But Frobby's point earlier is that two SPs with similar 2021 stats are on vastly different paths in 2022 that it'll be hard for the arbiters to just ignore current events.)

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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2 hours ago, btdart20 said:

Pay him what he gets in the arb hearing.  It's not like it'll be $17m.  Then see what happens after rehab...  Tough break for Means and the O's.

The arbitration hearings should have taken place in the off season.  But the lockout...  So this year's stats/games mean nothing in the case.  He'll get paid for past performance.  (Or at least that's how it should work.  But Frobby's point earlier is that two SPs with similar 2021 stats are on vastly different paths in 2022 that it'll be hard for the arbiters to just ignore current events.)

Right.  In theory, 2022 performance shouldn’t be a factor.  But it’s hard for the arbitrators to be unaware that Means is going to be paid to do nothing.  

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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I agree this is a weird new wrinkle to have the hearings so spread out.  I assume that the players are receiving the lower number until the decision.  

I also agree that the O's should offer arb next year.  

EDIT to add: I mean offer arb to Means as I do not think Mancini will be an Oriole.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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11 hours ago, foxfield said:

I agree this is a weird new wrinkle to have the hearings so spread out.  I assume that the players are receiving the lower number until the decision.  

I also agree that the O's should offer arb next year.  

EDIT to add: I mean offer arb to Means as I do not think Mancini will be an Oriole.

Mancini is a free agent this offseason in any event, not eligible for arbitration.  

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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15 hours ago, Frobby said:

Right.  In theory, 2022 performance shouldn’t be a factor.  But it’s hard for the arbitrators to be unaware that Means is going to be paid to do nothing.  

I find it hard to believe that an arbitrator wouldn’t be able to remove from consideration an injury he suffered this year to determine what his worth should be based off prior year’s production. Even subconsciously. You’re gonna provide justification as to why you decide this way, so it’s not some number you’re making up on the fly. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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3 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I find it hard to believe that an arbitrator wouldn’t be able to remove from consideration an injury he suffered this year to determine what his worth should be based off prior year’s production. Even subconsciously. You’re gonna provide justification as to why you decide this way, so it’s not some number you’re making up on the fly. 

I don’t think they do provide any justification.   They just render a decision up or down.   

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think they do provide any justification.   They just render a decision up or down.   

Maybe not publicly, but I assume the teams and union have an interest in knowing what caused them to reach a decision. 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 hours ago, waroriole said:

I find it hard to believe that an arbitrator wouldn’t be able to remove from consideration an injury he suffered this year to determine what his worth should be based off prior year’s production. Even subconsciously. You’re gonna provide justification as to why you decide this way, so it’s not some number you’re making up on the fly. 

They are not making up a number.  They are choosing one of two numbers.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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3 hours ago, waroriole said:

Maybe not publicly, but I assume the teams and union have an interest in knowing what caused them to reach a decision. 

I don’t think they tell them.  Will look at the CBA to see if it says.  
Edit: The new CBA isn’t published yet, but here’s what the old one said:

“The arbitration panel shall be limited to awarding only one or the other of the two figures submitted. There shall be no opinion.”

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