Mancini ejection?

[tntoriole]

8 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Of course this isn't actually our regular first base coach, although at this point he probably has coached more games at first than the regular guy has.

It seems pretty habitual for most base coaches to gesture like that routinely. 

[RZNJ]

Jammer. Great posts and I get it but I would have no problem with an automated ball and strike caller.

 

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Obviously you feel humans are imperfect. Well, so be it. That’s life. I’d rather deal with the nuances of the human condition. To me, that is the culture of the game. I’ve spent a lot of time around the game. I’ve been blessed to have that opportunity. The people are why I love the game. I root for people, not stats. I don’t do fantasy baseball. The grind of a baseball season, the smell of the grass, the mistakes of the human players, coaches and umpires…that is what I love about the game. The culture. And I hate that people keep trying to change the game, make new rules. All of this to “grow the game” or to attract new fans that don’t like baseball and probably never will.

Baseball is not for everyone. The casual fan wants it to fit into a neat time slot, but then the casual fan rarely played the game, even as a kid, or goes to many games. Baseball evolves, sure, and endures because of the people. Some changes have been necessary.

If MLB goes anymore automated, I’m out. I’ll stick to the SEC. Hell, I’ll go watch local HS baseball rather than watch a watered down game that used to be great. L

What will we automate next? The beer guy? Tell me we aren’t going to get rid of Clancy the beer guy too? 

I have watched and loved the game since 1965.. and have enjoyed the drama and rituals .. and was an umpire for years ..

But yes, the game is losing its hold because it does many things that are traditional but which don’t necessarily appeal.  And when the next TV contract is negotiated and our generation goes away, some teams may be history.

Changing the ability for an umpire to just toss a star player in that specific type of situation because that’s the way it has always been is not a sufficient argument to me ..it was the same argument that some people had about replay reviews… “the human factor”  That specific part about umpiring is not as appealing any more to me as say the grass and the rest of the game itself.   

[Jammer7]

Just now, tntoriole said:

I have watched and loved the game since 1965.. and have enjoyed the drama and rituals .. and was an umpire for years ..

But yes, the game is losing its hold because it does many things that are traditional but which don’t necessarily appeal.  And when the next TV contract is negotiated and our generation goes away, some teams may be history.

Changing the ability for an umpire to just toss a star player in that specific type of situation because that’s the way it has always been is not a sufficient argument to me ..it was the same argument that some people had about replay reviews… “the human factor”  That specific part about umpiring is not as appealing any more to me as say the grass and the rest of the game itself.   

Stars don’t get to act however they like. Trey will be the first one to say that. The minute they allow star players to rant and rave and go on and on, many fans will stop coming. What example is that for our kids and grandkids? This is a kids game, after all.

Look at the television numbers for baseball. They are not losing one but of a hold, except maybe in Baltimore. lol

Replay is one I actually like and was in favor of. The umpires do as well. They just want to get it right. It is not about their egos. The auto nation I am not in favor of is the pitch clocks and things like that. I have seen several batters get called strikes in college games recently. Some were third strikes with runners on. Ridiculous rule. There are things that change with every pitch and the players need moments to adjust their mental processes. Things like that.

All good. I respect your opinions. We just disagree. Cool.

[Jammer7]

18 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Jammer. Great posts and I get it but I would have no problem with an automated ball and strike caller.

 

I struggle with it. And I get why people want it. It is inevitable, I imagine. I will reserve judgement on it until it happens. The players seem to want it. There are some things they have to work out first. There is a delay right now, for instance, that would not make it plausible. 

I can see the bases and home plate getting increased. The players are bigger, stronger and faster now than ever before. Make the plate slightly bigger, and the bases too. I can see that as a safety need. 

[Moose Milligan]

57 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

The rules though are made up by the sport.  If the sport said Hey .. profanity in the dugout is not a tossabke offense then there would not be the consequence of losing star players. 
It is theater.  With the behavior rules based on the ancient dictates of baseball history. 
Look at hockey .. i have not seen many ejections for players yelling at refs.. or even for engaging in regular brawls.. that is the theater for that sport

There is nothing that says that ejections like Trey’s have to occur. It is just because MLB says so. And they could change it if they want a better product imho

 

I don’t know how to respond to this. 

[geschinger]

9 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

The auto nation I am not in favor of is the pitch clocks and things like that. I have seen several batters get called strikes in college games recently. Some were third strikes with runners on. Ridiculous rule. There are things that change with every pitch and the players need moments to adjust their mental processes. Things like that.

Players will get used to things like the pitch clocks and it won't be an issue. What we've seen with the pitch clocks in minor league games is that it's shortened games by 20 minutes.  The makes the product on the field and more importantly on TV better.  Those are the kind of changes everyone in the game should be embracing.

[tntoriole]

3 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Stars don’t get to act however they like. Trey will be the first one to say that. The minute they allow star players to rant and rave and go on and on, many fans will stop coming. What example is that for our kids and grandkids? This is a kids game, after all.

Look at the television numbers for baseball. They are not losing one but of a hold, except maybe in Baltimore. lol

Replay is one I actually like and was in favor of. The umpires do as well. They just want to get it right. It is not about their egos. The auto nation I am not in favor of is the pitch clocks and things like that. I have seen several batters get called strikes in college games recently. Some were third strikes with runners on. Ridiculous rule. There are things that change with every pitch and the players need moments to adjust their mental processes. Things like that.

All good. I respect your opinions. We just disagree. Cool.

I respect yours too.. thanks!

 The ritual of rhubarb and ejection however actually perpetuates the ranting and raving, not reduce or eliminate it.  Players follow their code, umpires follow their code etc.  There is no preventative effect on players by being tossed.  In fact, sometimes players feel enhanced by it .. being fiery, passionate etc is part of their persona to the public. 

The process of ejection and players and managers behaviors are all guided by the ritual.  If MLB really wanted to eliminate it “for the kids” example, then .. they could say starting tomorrow that any player or manager who argues overtly on the field or disrespects the umpire from the dugout is suspended for 25 games. 

They don’t stop it, because like hockey ,it is part of the ritual and performance.  There were many traditionalists who were and are against replay and DHs and night games lol  Change can be a good thing too. 

[Tony-OH]

28 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Changing the ability for an umpire to just toss a star player in that specific type of situation because that’s the way it has always been is not a sufficient argument to me ..it was the same argument that some people had about replay reviews… “the human factor”  That specific part about umpiring is not as appealing any more to me as say the grass and the rest of the game itself.   

So star players should be treated differently then other players? So players should just be allowed to keep yelling at the umpires for as long as they want?

Mancini himself said he deserved to get tossed. I appreciate him taking personal responsibility for his actions. That seems to be lost on some people nowadays.

[Jammer7]

6 minutes ago, geschinger said:

Players will get used to things like the pitch clocks and it won't be an issue. What we've seen with the pitch clocks in minor league games is that it's shortened games by 20 minutes.  The makes the product on the field and more importantly on TV better.  Those are the kind of changes everyone in the game should be embracing.

Yeah, that’s the narrative. I don’t agree that it should be embraced, but that is the narrative. Again, fitting the game into a neat time slot. That is not baseball. Basketball, football, soccer…they have time clocks. Baseball has innings. It was made that way for a reason.

If they keep using the humidors, we’ll see even more strategy and signs being relayed. More bunts, hit and run, etc… When these headsets get throw out because the pitcher can’t hear it, it will go back to multiple sets of signs with runners on. 

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

So star players should be treated differently then other players? So players should just be allowed to keep yelling at the umpires for as long as they want?

Mancini himself said he deserved to get tossed. I appreciate him taking personal responsibility for his actions. That seems to be lost on some people nowadays.

I appreciate it too.  Trey would have likely stopped saying bad words once the first batter stepped in.  No one was in any danger it seems to me except in their own egos.   But yes, he followed the code, argued, lost his cool and received the “deserved” ejection.  All true and all true for any player.   Well maybe except Derek Jeter who got away with murder lol 

[geschinger]

30 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Yeah, that’s the narrative. I don’t agree that it should be embraced, but that is the narrative. Again, fitting the game into a neat time slot. That is not baseball. Basketball, football, soccer…they have time clocks. Baseball has innings. It was made that way for a reason.

I've watched more minor league games this year than MLB games and increasing pace of play has not taken anything away from those games it has only improved it.  Once players are used to it, you don't even notice it. 

[BRobinsonfan]

14 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

What a load of ****. 
 

Anyone who could be so slightly confused to think that Mancini turning into the field could have been possibly construed as making an intentional move towards second base is insane. 
 

Mancini was walking back to first. It was obvious. The umpire simply wanted to have a moment and flex. And I don’t care that Mancini got thrown out, he had every right to voice his displeasure in whatever manner he felt would get his point across. In fact, I hope he used Crash Davis’ magic phrase. 

This times x1000.  

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've already stated that I don't agree with the call.

I do think the video shows him taking a little hop toward second while checking how the play was developing behind him.

If he had simply immediately moved back to the bag it would have been a nonissue.

 

I agree he took a little hop, and that’s probably why he was called out.   But he had his back to the ball and wasn’t going anywhere IMO.   And, his walk back to 1B wasn’t any faster or slower than any other batter returning to 1B after beating out a ball.    

Very bad call by the ump, but I do understand why he made the mistake.  
 

[geschinger]

From what I saw on the CCS analysis of the ejection Trey would/should have been tossed regardless of any profanity or attacks directed towards the umpire.

The claim is that the ejection was for going to the iPad and then claiming video contradicted the on-field ruling.  Apparently that is an offense which can lead to an immediate ejection.