Would you take Jones Jr at full slot (or close to it) or Termarr Johnson at $1.5M under slot?

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Ok, not hardly, but I really don’t care. There are several out there. I’m not going to spend the time tonight. When I come across them again, I’ll post it for you. Just for you. Better things to do at the moment. 

While you’re patiently waiting for my article citation, ponder this one for me. Name me one guy his size that should have ever been picked 1-1 in the modern era? And he’s 5-08, at best. 

Mookie Betts is listed at 5'9" and he could have easily gone 1-1 if you were to redraft the 2011 draft.

Obviously he wasn't draft elgiable but the 5'6" Jose Altuve is a talent worth spending a 1-1 pick on.

[Just Regular]

I wonder if the physicality and the Hit tool interrelate.    Its 20+ years ago, but I remember reading an anecdote about Kirby Puckett and a more athletic guy, I want to say Glenn Braggs.   Almost positive it was in a Historical Abstract.    It kind of went that Puckett was envious of this chiseled Adonis guy and wondered how much better he might be if his body was like that, and James' take was the short levers were part of what enabled him to square the ball up so often.    The compare contrast on Termarr and Elijah Green this draft season has reminded me of that.

We've seen in Norby's case Elias' willingness to draft a HIt tool dominant 2B, as a question of taste.

 

[RZNJ]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Mookie Betts is listed at 5'9" and he could have easily gone 1-1 if you were to redraft the 2011 draft.

Obviously he wasn't draft elgiable but the 5'6" Jose Altuve is a talent worth spending a 1-1 pick on.

Kirby Puckett 5'8".  Dustin Pedroia 5'9. 

I double dare anyone to find one report that says best case scenario defensively he's below average at 2B.

Again, Law has him #3 and McDaniel has him #2.  You can disagree but back it up.  I am not campaigning for Termarr at #1. Just read my posts. I prefer Jones, Holliday, or Lee.

[jdwilde1]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Mookie Betts is listed at 5'9" and he could have easily gone 1-1 if you were to redraft the 2011 draft.

Obviously he wasn't draft elgiable but the 5'6" Jose Altuve is a talent worth spending a 1-1 pick on.

Jose Ramirez is listed at 5’9” and is a tremendous talent, and has finished in the top 3 MVP voting three times since 2017.   Joe Morgan, Pudge Rodriguez, Rickey Henderson, Tim Raines, and Kirby Puckett are all HoF and were 5’9” or less. Dustin Pedroia and Miguel Tejada were MVPs. Other current guys like Ozzie Albies and Cedric Mullins are All-Stars who are around the same height.  Even Marcus Stroman is only 5’8” (although the height is going to be much more of an issue for a pitching prospect than a second baseman).  Too many to list if you bump it up to under 6’0”.

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-baseball-players-shorter-than-6-feet-tall-right-now/ranker-baseball

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

Jose Ramirez is listed at 5’9” and is a tremendous talent, and has finished in the top 3 MVP voting three times since 2017.   Joe Morgan, Pudge Rodriguez, Rickey Henderson, Tim Raines, and Kirby Puckett are all HoF and were 5’9” or less. Dustin Pedroia and Miguel Tejada were MVPs. Other current guys like Ozzie Albies and Cedric Mullins are All-Stars who are around the same height.  Even Marcus Stroman is only 5’8” (although the height is going to be much more of an issue for a pitching prospect than a second baseman).  Too many to list if you bump it up to under 6’0”.

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-baseball-players-shorter-than-6-feet-tall-right-now/ranker-baseball

I was trying to be conservative with the modern era caveat.  Basically trying to stick with guys that were still active.  I don't think Mullins is what you hope for in a 1-1, same with Stroman.

[Jammer7]

3 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

Jose Ramirez is listed at 5’9” and is a tremendous talent, and has finished in the top 3 MVP voting three times since 2017.   Joe Morgan, Pudge Rodriguez, Rickey Henderson, Tim Raines, and Kirby Puckett are all HoF and were 5’9” or less. Dustin Pedroia and Miguel Tejada were MVPs. Other current guys like Ozzie Albies and Cedric Mullins are All-Stars who are around the same height.  Even Marcus Stroman is only 5’8” (although the height is going to be much more of an issue for a pitching prospect than a second baseman).  Too many to list if you bump it up to under 6’0”.

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-baseball-players-shorter-than-6-feet-tall-right-now/ranker-baseball

Albie’s, Ramirez, Tejada and Pudge were UFA. Puckett, probably. Betts, of course. Tim Raines, maybe. I think he’s a little taller, but ok. I thought Rickey was taller, I was wrong. The rest of those, nah. Not for me. Hell no on Stroman and Pedroia.

Look, I was looking to get lots of feedback on this. I got it. Now, of the position players listed, how many were maybe 5-08 and 195 lbs? He plays the game laid back, nonchalantly even. The vast majority of guys everyone listed were twitchier energetic guys with more speed and athleticism.

The closest body type, without PED’s (Tejada) is Puckett. A lot of juice and energy there. That is not Termarr.

Maybe I am wrong. In 4-5 years, we’ll know. But I just don’t see it at all. To those with a man crush on the little fella, carry on. 

[jdwilde1]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

was trying to be conservative with the modern era caveat.  Basically trying to stick with guys that were still active.  I don't think Mullins is what you hope for in a 1-1, same with Stroman

Yes, I was tracking that.  The active players who are potential HoFs and are 5’9” or under are Betts, Altuve, and Ramirez.  I mentioned Stroman, Albies, and Mullins because they are all All Stars who are under 5’9” and are currently playing to illustrate there are plenty of successful short guys. 

[Jammer7]

38 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Kirby Puckett 5'8".  Dustin Pedroia 5'9. 

I double dare anyone to find one report that says best case scenario defensively he's below average at 2B.

Again, Law has him #3 and McDaniel has him #2.  You can disagree but back it up.  I am not campaigning for Termarr at #1. Just read my posts. I prefer Jones, Holliday, or Lee.

For now, it’s my opinion. I’m backing it with that for now. You don’t like it, that’s your choice. Perhaps you find I have no credibility. Ok, you don’t know me, or who I talk with often. That’s fine. I’m nobody.

I’ve read it, but I’ve read and heard a lot. Takes time to find those things. Might have been a few months ago. So what. Changes nothing. 

“Busting my chops” about a half grade, is silly. I mean if we’re back to that kind of stuff, I’m done with this topic then. I’m not going to argue. If it makes you feel better, give him an average grade. You win the battle of nothing at all. 

For instance, BA says (paraphrasing) he is average now. The hands work well. The arm is average, for a 2B. They say he will likely lose a step at maturity. His range is down some now, the reason cited that he should be a 2B. They say he will generally catch what he can get to. Then, they say it would be “unsurprising” if he loses a step. Sounds like a below average future grade to me, without coming out and saying it. It’s obviously behind a pay wall, but that is what it says.

Now, enjoy your night. 

[Jammer7]

3 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

Yes, I was tracking that.  The active players who are potential HoFs and are 5’9” or under are Betts, Altuve, and Ramirez.  I mentioned Stroman, Albies, and Mullins because they are all All Stars who are under 5’9” and are currently playing to illustrate there are plenty of successful short guys. 

But which ones would have drafted 1-1? The UDFA don’t count.

[Jammer7]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Mookie Betts is listed at 5'9" and he could have easily gone 1-1 if you were to redraft the 2011 draft.

Obviously he wasn't draft elgiable but the 5'6" Jose Altuve is a talent worth spending a 1-1 pick on.

Altuve, if he had been eligible, 1-1 worthy? Scratching my head a little on that one. Not for me. 

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Albie’s, Ramirez, Tejada and Pudge were UFA. Puckett, probably. Betts, of course. Tim Raines, maybe. I think he’s a little taller, but ok. I thought Rickey was taller, I was wrong. The rest of those, nah. Not for me. Hell no on Stroman and Pedroia.

Look, I was looking to get lots of feedback on this. I got it. Now, of the position players listed, how many were maybe 5-08 and 195 lbs? He plays the game laid back, nonchalantly even. The vast majority of guys everyone listed were twitchier energetic guys with more speed and athleticism.

The closest body type, without PED’s (Tejada) is Puckett. A lot of juice and energy there. That is not Termarr.

Maybe I am wrong. In 4-5 years, we’ll know. But I just don’t see it at all. To those with a man crush on the little fella, carry on. 

I think it's funny you are dismissing the idea that Puckett could have used PEDs.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Jammer7 said:

Altuve, if he had been eligible, 1-1 worthy? Scratching my head a little on that one. Not for me. 

Unreasonable expectations.

[jdwilde1]

18 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Look, I was looking to get lots of feedback on this. I got it. Now, of the position players listed, how many were maybe 5-08 and 195 lbs? He plays the game laid back, nonchalantly even. The vast majority of guys everyone listed were twitchier energetic guys with more speed and athleticism.

Those are all valid points.   However, I wouldn’t want Elias and Co. to not consider Johnson simply because he is on the shorter side. I have never seen any of the draft prospects play other than in highlights, so I have no real opinion on who they draft.  I am going to save my judgment until the pick starts playing professionally and hope that he is more like Machado than Rowell and Hobgood.

[Jammer7]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it's funny you are dismissing the idea that Puckett could have used PEDs.

I have not heard his name in that group. Have you?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Jammer7 said:

I have not heard his name in that group. Have you?

Nope.  Nor really any of his peers.  But we know they were being used.

I'm not saying either way.