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Jorge Lopez traded to Twins for pitching prospects (edit)

interloper

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Posted by Roll Tide,

Cano https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/canoye01.shtml #22 Povich  https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=povich000cad Rojas https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=rojas-004jua Nunez https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=nunez-008jua

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Posted by Tony-OH,

Ok, just getting caught up on this thanks to being in meetings this morning. My take: Povich is the headliner and although I have not gone and watched him yet (I'll do that tonight) all reports is that he's adding velocity and becoming a guy. A three pitch lefty with a good change can be an effective 4th/5th starter and if his velocity continues to tick up or the Orioles are able to get more out of his change, we have ourselves a future rotation piece.  Cano is a Cuban so he's a little

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Not so funny when we probably missed the playoffs because we relied more heavily on Krhiebel and Baker.  Then we tried filling the empty spot in the pen with Jake Reed.  Real funny.  

Get a grip.  Lopez didn’t help the Twins.

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Tony-OH
Tony-OH

Ok, just getting caught up on this thanks to being in meetings this morning. My take: Povich is the headliner and although I have not gone and watched him yet (I'll do that tonight) all reports i

accinfo
accinfo

I think this regime deserves some benefit of the doubt regarding evaluating talent.  They have done pretty well with the current crop of bullpen arms they have brought in this year.  I don't think the

Tony-OH
Tony-OH

I liked the trade then and I like the trade now. The trade allowed Bautista to close and while it did tax guys like Krehbiel, it also allowed Baker to step up a bit too. Lopez wasn't great a

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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15 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

He was better than Khriebel and Reed were for us.  That's a firm grip buddy. 

So you’re saying good chance we make the playoffs last year if we kept Jorge?  It’s a shame it didn’t work that way for the Twins.

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8 minutes ago, EdwinRip said:

Lopez was worth negative WAR for the twins last year.  You can’t assume he would have pitched better for us.  I don’t believe he was the difference in making the playoffs.

If anything he sabotaged their chances.  He pitched decently in August and spit the bit in September.  He gave up 8 earned runs and a 1.971 WHIP in 11.2 IP in September.

We traded two players who did nothing to help their new teams and got 6 good arms back.   If you can find something to complain about there you have issues.

SSS alert.  But Cano makes the Lopez trade a win all by himself.   Povich, Nunez, and Rojas (on the 60 day IL) are just gravy.

The Twins overpaid willingly because they were going for it.   It backfired on them last year.   We’ll see how Lopez and Cano compare at the end of the year.

 

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15 minutes ago, EdwinRip said:

Lopez was worth negative WAR for the twins last year.  You can’t assume he would have pitched better for us.  I don’t believe he was the difference in making the playoffs.

Why can’t you assume it?

First of all, we know he’s an emotional guy and didn’t want to be dealt. I don’t see why it couldn’t have effected him mentally.

Secondly, are we giving credit to the Orioles and how they are developing pitching or not? Maybe Minnesota wanted him to change something? 
 

For any player, when you suddenly take them from an environment they are used to and change that, it can effect them, good or bad.  He had a 2.45 ERA In August last year. His ERA in Sept was over 7 and 4 of those runs were in one outing in 2/3 of an inning.

Now, the walk rate was also high in September. Wasn’t a great month overall but wouldn’t have taken much too change the narrative that he was “bad” in Minnesota.

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35 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

So you’re saying good chance we make the playoffs last year if we kept Jorge?  It’s a shame it didn’t work that way for the Twins.

The past can't be changed, but to say that trading Lopez away didn't effect bullpen strategy, roles, and usage, would just be untrue.  Khriebiel, and Reed, were in some higher than ideal leverage situations last Aug/Sept.  

 

Bullpen roles matter.  We all saw that when Brach had to be the "closer" that year, and Donnie Hart was asked to do more than be a LOOGY.  Domino effect.  

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4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The past can't be changed, but to say that trading Lopez away didn't effect bullpen strategy, roles, and usage, would just be untrue.  Khriebiel, and Reed, were in some higher than ideal leverage situations last Aug/Sept.  

 

Bullpen roles matter.  We all saw that when Brach had to be the "closer" that year, and Donnie Hart was asked to do more than be a LOOGY.  Domino effect.  

The Orioles bullpen didn’t step up with the loss of Lopez.  Still, if hadn’t been traded very doubtful we make the playoffs anyway.    We did well in that trade.   Try to enjoy it.

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4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The Orioles bullpen didn’t step up with the loss of Lopez.  Still, if hadn’t been traded very doubtful we make the playoffs anyway.    We did well in that trade.   Try to enjoy it.

It's in the past.  It was more of an issue when it was affecting this year's team.  Cano has been a Godsend.  Fingers crossed, I think we won't be seeing any of these selling shenanigans for awhile.  Maybe Santander this offseason.  Overall, we can agree to disagree, and I appreciate the discussion.  Cano did save our butts though.  

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2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Man, can you imagine the OH still talking about the Glenn Davis trade a year later?  What would this place be like if we were around for the Eddie Murray trade?

I'd still be mocking the guys that wanted Murray run out of town (assuming they were still alive).

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Can_of_corn

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Just now, Moose Milligan said:

If we never trade Murray, we probably never have to trade for Glenn Davis.

 

I don't recall the whole of the Murray trade and I don't feel like looking it up, but I'm guessing we got less than we gave up for Davis.

OK, I looked it up.  Did you know the O's sent cash to the Dodgers to help pay Murray's contract?  (he had 3yr/8M left on his deal)

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40 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why can’t you assume it?

First of all, we know he’s an emotional guy and didn’t want to be dealt. I don’t see why it couldn’t have effected him mentally.

Secondly, are we giving credit to the Orioles and how they are developing pitching or not? Maybe Minnesota wanted him to change something? 
 

For any player, when you suddenly take them from an environment they are used to and change that, it can effect them, good or bad.  He had a 2.45 ERA In August last year. His ERA in Sept was over 7 and 4 of those runs were in one outing in 2/3 of an inning.

Now, the walk rate was also high in September. Wasn’t a great month overall but wouldn’t have taken much too change the narrative that he was “bad” in Minnesota.

You can assume whatever you want if it helps your argument.  The facts certainly don’t.  
 

“Maybe the Twins wanted him to change something “ ?

Desperation turning into hilarity.   So they dealt 4 arms for a bullpen guy they thought needed to make changes in the middle of a pennant race?   It’s funny but it’s also really really stupid. 

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