Jorge Lopez traded to Twins for pitching prospects (edit)

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s also 28 and has command and control issues.

Relievers can come out of nowhere, ala Bautista but the bottom line is expecting anything out of him is too much.

He is an after thought in this trade. A lottery ticket so to speak. This deal hinges on Povich.

That is fair, just premature to call him definitively terrible. Cano's minors numbers don't look too different from Cionel Perez. Admittedly, not every reliever with those numbers will turn into Cionel Perez.

I agree, Povich is the key, but even if Povich fails the deal is really a loss only if Lopez outperforms again.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Jammer7 said:

You came at me a little strong there, bud.

I guess I did.  I apologize for that.  

[sportsfan8703]

It’s funny that Povich just popped up on ESPN’s top 100 list. 
 

I don’t think Givens replaces Lopez. Givens ensures that we won’t have to dip into the Jake Reed’s of the world. Khreibel is a great depth option, and was actually our 4th best reliever last year until he tired out late in the season. 
 

Cano needs to look good in ST and AAA, because he’s at the bottom of our 40 man roster with Gilaspie and Politi. 

[sportsfan8703]

This is a tough trade in retrospect. I know a couple of publications had Povich in their top 100, but it sure would be nice to have Lopez in MR/SU during the Adley/Gunnar years. 
 

Just because Bautista exploded onto the scene  doesn’t mean we had to run off and trade Lopez. Then Elias compounds things by giving Givens $7 million a year. Why not just keep Lopez?  
 

I think Elias got caught trying to be the smartest dude in the room instead of just riding with our guys. 
 

Last year we fell off the wagon because of middle relief and setup, looks like it’s happening again this year. You just don’t give away dudes that throw 99 mph sinkers and that can consistently get you 4-5 outs. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by sportsfan8703

[glenn__davis]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

 
 

Last year we fell off the wagon because of middle relief and setup, looks like it’s happening again this year. You just don’t give away dudes that throw 99 mph sinkers and that can consistently get you 4-5 outs. 

I don't agree with the bolded at all.  We largely fell off the wagon because our offense sputtered down the stretch.  There were other contributing factors as well but it's not like the bullpen took a huge step back after we traded Lopez who wasn't great for the Twins in the 2nd half.

Now I do agree with the general point that it would be nice to have him right now.  Ultimately the trade will be judged on how Povich turns out (and whether or not any of the 2 younger players amounts to anything).

[RZNJ]

16 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

This is a tough trade in retrospect. I know a couple of publications had Povich in their top 100, but it sure would be nice to have Lopez in MR/SU during the Adley/Gunnar years. 
 

Just because Bautista exploded onto the scene  doesn’t mean we had to run off and trade Lopez. Then Elias compounds things by giving Givens $7 million a year. Why not just keep Lopez?  
 

I think Elias got caught trying to be the smartest dude in the room instead of just riding with our guys. 
 

Last year we fell off the wagon because of middle relief and setup, looks like it’s happening again this year. You just don’t give away dudes that throw 99 mph sinkers and that can consistently get you 4-5 outs. 

You can make an argument for keeping Lopez but let's remember two things.

1. Lopez had a poor second half for the Twins

2. Povich and McDermott are really nice prospects.   Cano and Rojas are wildcards with a chance.

Would we have been a better team in the 2nd half with Lopez.  Yes but it's tough to say by how much.     It would be nice to have him now but I think it's a bit early to be judging Baker, Gillaspie, Baumann, and the rest.

[sportsfan8703]

Could we trade Povich and McDermott to the Twins for Lopez?  That call gets hung up on. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Could we trade Povich and McDermott to the Twins for Lopez?  That call gets hung up on. 

I guess.    Lopez had a 4.35 ERA and a 1.62 WHIP with the Twins last year.    I guess you are pretty happy with his first 2.1 innings this year.

[interloper]

Povich is our best pitching prospect after DL Hall. After Povich, you have the injured Seth Johnson followed by a precipitous cliff into the abyss of #5-ceiling starters and eventual long relievers. That alone is reason enough to have traded Lopez IMO. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by interloper

[RZNJ]

Just now, interloper said:

Povich is our best pitching prospect after DL Hall. After Povich, you have the injured Seth Johnson followed by a precipitous cliff into the abyss of #5 ceiling starters and eventual long relievers. That alone is reason enough to have traded Lopez IMO. 

I think people are underestimating McDermott.    I think he's got the bigger arm than Povich and could really be something especially if he can learn the split as his offspeed pitch which is what he's attempting.    His fastball and curve are both plus.

[interloper]

Just now, RZNJ said:

I think people are underestimating McDermott.    I think he's got the bigger arm than Povich and could really be something especially if he can learn the split as his offspeed pitch which is what he's attempting.    His fastball and curve are both plus.

Sure! I like McDermott as well. I just think you barely need the 3 other pitchers when considering if the O's should have made the trade. Despite the #1 farm system, you don't have a lot of great SP prospect depth down there. It was smart to reload on Grayson/Hall with Povich/Johnson during that trade deadline. 

[RVAOsFan]

I didn't have an issue with this trade when it was made and I certainly don't have an issue with it after seeing Povich on top 100 lists.

The O's are 3-3 after playing 6 road games.  If this team stays around .500 for a few months we can pick up another Lopez around the deadline using a prospect from a position of depth.

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Could we trade Povich and McDermott to the Twins for Lopez?  That call gets hung up on. 

Only because the Twins are in a different situation from us. If they are in last place at the break I'm sure they take that deal. Even so it's not that ludicrous. Lopez is making over $3M, and they could have gotten Boxberger or Chapman for that money this year, or a Chad Green for two years/similar AAV.

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I think people are underestimating McDermott.    I think he's got the bigger arm than Povich and could really be something especially if he can learn the split as his offspeed pitch which is what he's attempting.    His fastball and curve are both plus.

Nope. What we’re underestimating is that we’re wasting years of Adley/Gunnar. Both prospects are 1-2 years away. 
 

If the Twins wouldn’t redo the trade, then I think that tells you about the trade. They’re trying to win. I’m sure they’re happy with the 3+ out reliever that throws 99mph sinkers. 

[interloper]

I'm confident that if the team is contending at the deadline, we will trade from our infield depth for a reliever who is even better than Lopez.

Then we will have restocked our SP depth by trading Lopez, and traded from surplus to restock the bullpen. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by interloper