Is it possible that we (the Hangout fans) are just not patient enough??

[Explosivo]

Yes absolutely. Be patient guys. This will be a fun year of development. We will get younger. We will see what our youth can do, some for a full season. This is the year where we learn a lot and likely the projections will hold and we will find ourselves playing in the postseason. Can’t wait to see what these baby birds can do. Lyles would be fun. Wacha would be a fun get. Eovaldi would be interesting but the QO has me thinking Elias won’t go for it unless heavily discounted.

[baltfan]

17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Both of those teams were extending their own players.

If the O's were to lock up Adley and Gunnar you might see a different response.

If the Orioles locked up Adley I would bet less than 50% of this board would be happy given his age and position.  As for Gunnar, I can’t think of a non-Latin American player that extended  before their first year was even complete. 

[eddie83]

This off-season Elias has basically said the following

-club will try to add a #1-3 SP 

-thinks club can make playoffs but odds against winning division 

-said that many FA pitchers best year is their first year, now I am not sure I buy this but whether you agree or not it has meaning 

-lacks interest in dealing MLB players off the roster 

 

Basically he is not being aggressive in trying to boost -to this point- the 2023 Orioles. What he does or doesn’t do this year will not hurt the future. He has not got into a bidding war for the available arms. He views the year as a growth year but not a year to attack. Looks like to me someone who thinks the window is opening but not peaking quite yet.  

I can in general get behind this line of thought. I would not have made some of the comments he made but I do agree the Orioles are not the favorites to win division. That said you have a minuscule payroll and a clear need in the rotation. Bringing in an upgrade via FA will not hinder the internal growth and if it fails it will not impact the team that greatly financially. I can believe he was sincere about wanting to upgrade and not pushing hard so far. Both can be true. 
 

If he signs a lower level arm and that pitcher matches what one of the mid rotation arms produces he will look fine. If they don’t and the team falls a little short of the playoffs there will be criticism. I think there can be a happy medium here. I can get behind the idea of not being ready to make major trades yet. Give yourself another year to evaluate as well as have depth on MLB roster while waiting for some prospects. That said you should also be able to legitimately help the 23 Orioles while not going all in.  

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, baltfan said:

If the Orioles locked up Adley I would bet less than 50% of this board would be happy given his age and position.  As for Gunnar, I can’t think of a non-Latin American player that extended  before their first year was even complete. 

Longoria was extended the first week he was in the majors.   

[baltfan]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Longoria was extended the first week he was in the majors.   

You are absolutely right.  I forgot about Longoria. He is definitely the exception though. 

[Frobby]

Just now, baltfan said:

You are absolutely right.  I forgot about Longoria. He is definitely the exception though. 

There are others.  Scott Kingery, Paul DeJong, Evan White, Brandon Lowe.  Those are the ones I know of, but there could be other ones.

[deward]

4 hours ago, Explosivo said:

Yes absolutely. Be patient guys. This will be a fun year of development. We will get younger. We will see what our youth can do, some for a full season. This is the year where we learn a lot and likely the projections will hold and we will find ourselves playing in the postseason. Can’t wait to see what these baby birds can do. Lyles would be fun. Wacha would be a fun get. Eovaldi would be interesting but the QO has me thinking Elias won’t go for it unless heavily discounted.

You don't want to block the youth, but you want to bring back Lyles to clog up another rotation spot with a mediocre (at best) veteran? That doesn't sound fun at all. I'd rather give Kremer/Bradish/Voth/Wells all a chance to prove last year wasn't a fluke than do that. I think at least one of those guys is going to regress, mind you, but I'd rather let that play out if the only alternative is Lyles.

All evidence from the past month suggests that Elias will allow himself to get outbid for Eovaldi. Wacha would be moderately interesting as a mid-rotation piece, if he can stay healthy.

[Three Run Homer]

10 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Likewise, we have much bigger needs than a SS right now.

And if we want to upgrade offense at the position, we could always just start Gunnar there with Urias at 3B and Westburg at 2B, and use Mateo as the UIF.

I'm fine with not signing Correa, as long as the team is willing to trade Mateo and/or Urias to make room for Westburg and Ortiz.  

However, I'm concerned that the Gibson signing has painted Elias into a corner.  Supposedly one of the things that convinced Gibson to sign here was our strong infield defense.  Does that mean that Elias will feel obligated to stick with Urias and Mateo, even though we have prospects with more upside who are major league ready?  

[eddie83]

12 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I'm fine with not signing Correa, as long as the team is willing to trade Mateo and/or Urias to make room for Westburg and Ortiz.  

However, I'm concerned that the Gibson signing has painted Elias into a corner.  Supposedly one of the things that convinced Gibson to sign here was our strong infield defense.  Does that mean that Elias will feel obligated to stick with Urias and Mateo, even though we have prospects with more upside who are major league ready?  

Elias has to figure out how to get to Holliday. Henderson will be playing next to him. 
 

I think things will work out fine. May take a little time. If Urias and Mateo are playing well that is a good thing. You have options behind them plus the possibility of a mid season deal. 

[Just Regular]

4 hours ago, baltfan said:

If the Orioles locked up Adley I would bet less than 50% of this board would be happy given his age and position.  As for Gunnar, I can’t think of a non-Latin American player that extended  before their first year was even complete. 

The Rays Evan Longoria about where Gunnar is now.     But Longoria's choice is I believe something Boras would call a "snuff contract".

[Just Regular]

The Astros also played one hand of early career blackjack with Jon Singleton and lost.

[Tony-OH]

On 12/13/2022 at 1:38 PM, Low Country Bird said:

I, for one, would continue to be very patient and would like to see us continue to give opportunities to our home-grown prospects rather than mid-tier, highly paid free agents signed to long deals.  I have been fully onboard with Elias's plan and refusal to spend.

But what I don't get is the inconsistency in the messaging.  When he talks about diving into the free agent pool and "lift off," much of which was consistent with what Boras said at the winter meetings, but later walks back those remarks and talks about how risky long term contracts are, one has to wonder what happened.  You have to think he knew the budget when he made the "lift off" comments.  So did ownership reduce his budget, or did Elias underestimate the market and then realize/believe that the free agents were way outside of the budge, overpriced and for too many years?  Either way, not necessarily a good look.

And then he implies that Urias (2B) and Mateo (SS) will be our starting middle infield, without giving Westburg, Ortiz or Norby a chance to win the starting job in spring training.  Again, this appears inconsistent with what he has said and done in the past.    

If Elias had not gotten many fans' hopes up with his comments on "lift off," I think you'd have fewer people upset and/or disappointed in the offseason thus far.  

The acquisition and playing of Aguilar over Kyle Stowers was also inconsistent messaging since everything has been about the longterm plan. 

Stowers hit lefties great in the minors but was then benched for a washed up Aguilar, even after it was clear the Orioles were not going to win a wildcard spot. Why? 

The Orioles also continued to play Odor over Vavra most of September? How did that help the long term plan? At least see how Vavra looks playing 2B everyday. If it's bad, then you know he's not the answer, but why give playing time to a guy who wasn't even the right answer in 2022?

So while I like what Elias has done overall, especially with scouting, drafting and development, last year was the first time he showed inconsistent messaging during a season with how young players were used when brought up.

It's going to be interesting going forward how they use Stowers, Westburg, Ortiz and Cowser in 2023.

[24fps]

When I saw this thread title, I laughed so hard that my wife and both our cats came back to check on me.

[Tryptamine]

I'm not even an Oriole fan, but it's laughable to say be patient as you're wasting Service time on guys like Adley. So when is it time to be aggressive? When guys are down to a few years of control left and getting tremendously expensive?

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I'm not even an Oriole fan, but it's laughable to say be patient as you're wasting Service time on guys like Adley. So when is it time to be aggressive? When guys are down to a few years of control left and getting tremendously expensive?

Just curious.  Who's your team?