Adding quality players

[wildcard]

Veteranosity.   The players Elias have added do not have star quality at this point in their careers,  but McCann, Frazier and Gibsons have all been All-Stars and been to the playoffs.  Givens has also been to the playoffs.  They have been through the ups and downs of a pennant drive which should help the O's team.

Edited December 24, 2022 by wildcard

[owknows]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Veteransity.   The players Elias have added do not have star quality at this point in their careers,  but McCann, Frazier and Gibsons have all been All-Stars and been to the playoffs.  Givens has also been to the playoffs.  They have been through the ups and downs of a pennant drive which should help the O's team.

McCann, Gibson, Givens?  No Problem. They're not impeding anyone's progress.

Frazier was a bad move. Inserting a mediocre player into a middle infield at which we already have a logjam of existing and emerging talent is counter-productive. Even if we trade a middle infielder or two, we would STILL have a logjam.

[baltfan]

it’s laughable when people get upset at Elias of all people for bringing some veterans in.  This team has proven very penny conscious and data driven.  Why do some people assume that these veterans moves are driven by anything other than a desire to win?  No data driven team would spend money on these types of players unless they thought it helped.  And it isn’t a money thing, since it would be cheaper just to play the young guys. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by baltfan

[Frobby]

Nothing wrong with having a veteran presence on a team.  But how about some veterans who are also top-level players?   Are they disqualified from dispensing veteranosity?

[owknows]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Nothing wrong with having a veteran presence on a team.  But how about some veterans who are also top-level players?   Are they disqualified from dispensing veteranosity?

According to Baseball Reference, Veteranosity is inversely proportional to WAR

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, owknows said:

McCann, Gibson, Givens?  No Problem. They're not impeding anyone's progress.

Frazier was a bad move. Inserting a mediocre player into a middle infield at which we already have a logjam of existing and emerging talent is counter-productive. Even if we trade a middle infielder or two, we would STILL have a logjam.

If you are saying that Elias and Sig must be seeing something that most don't I agree.  But he was an All-Star in 2021 and went to the playoffs in 2022.   So Elias must feel he has something to offer.   

Right now he is holding noone back but maybe Vavra.   And Vavra does not project as a starter. There is room on the team for Gunnar, Mateo, Urias, Frazier and Westburg.   I don't think any of those players are going to play 160 games but Gunnar.   I think we will see the other players share playing time. Westburg may also see time at 1B, DH and I would not be surprised if he plays some corner outfield.

Ortiz may be ready sometime in 2023 if he hits and then the O's will need to trade.  Maybe they trade Frazier and get a decent prospect in return.

Edited December 24, 2022 by wildcard

[SemperFi]

42 minutes ago, baltfan said:

it’s laughable when people get upset at Elias of all people for bringing some veterans in.  These team has proven very penny conscious and data driven.  Why do some people assume that these veterans moves are driven by anything other than a desire to win?  No data driven team would spend money on these types of players unless they thought it helped.  And it isn’t a money thing, since it would be cheaper just to play the young guys. 

I agree, although I may get panned for this I think Odor had a much larger impact on the team than his analytics would suggest-clubhouse culture is important.  I'm certainly not suggesting he should have been retained but I am interested in seeing how the veterans play out-I am much more positive now than I was initially.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Veteranosity.   The players Elias have added do not have star quality at this point in their careers,  but McCann, Frazier and Gibsons have all been All-Stars and been to the playoffs.  Givens has also been to the playoffs.  They have been through the ups and downs of a pennant drive which should help the O's team.

So was Odor and Aquilar ….It’s Orioles optimism. Being over optimistic at the replacement additions that we’ve made.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Roll Tide

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So was Odor ….It’s Orioles optimism. Being over optimistic at the replacement additions that we’ve made.

I am pretty optimistic that they will fill the roles that are given them well.   McCann should be a pretty good backup catcher.  Gibson probably sees the same kind of improvement that Lyles saw playing with the O's defense, Wall and with Holt coaching and analytics. 

Givens should be pretty solid in the pen.   Frazier,  well I don't expect a 2021 season from him but I think Hyde will be able to pick spots for him to play that benefit him and the team.

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I am pretty optimistic that they will fill the roles that are given them well.   McCann should be a pretty good backup catcher.  Gibson probably sees the same kind of improvement that Lyles saw playing with the O's defense, Wall and with Holt coaching and analytics. 

Givens should be pretty solid in the pen.   Frazier,  well I don't expect a 2021 season from him but I think Hyde will be able to pick spots for him to play that benefit him and the team.

As I said ….Orioles optimism. You’ve fell victim of the Angelos honey potion and low expectations.

[Roll Tide]

BTW, The shift is gone. I actually thinks guys like Lyles and Gibson will be worse next year. 

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

BTW, The shift is gone. I actually thinks guys like Lyles and Gibson will be worse next year. 

So you are pitting your in-depth knowledge vs the O's analytics.   Good luck.

[btdart20]

8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

BTW, The shift is gone. I actually thinks guys like Lyles and Gibson will be worse next year. 

How so?  GB%?  Batted balls in the 2B hole?  On what assumptions do you base your expectations? 

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

So you are pitting your in-depth knowledge vs the O's analytics.   Good luck.

I could argue your drinking the   Koolaid. But, that’s nothing new. I don’t fault you for it. It certainly gives the board balance so thanks  

[Roll Tide]

4 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

How so?  GB%?  Batted balls in the 2B hole?  On what assumptions do you base your expectations? 

Well he was worse than Lyles with the fact that you can pitch to the shift. He’s bound to regress without that advantage. He’s not a big strikeout guys and he had a 1.3 WHIP with the benefit of the shift.