BRob potential deals to the Cubs

[crawdad]

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/how_bad_a_hitter_can_you_be_to_justify_a_great_glove/

BTW, if Pie plays GG caliber defense, he would need to have an OPS+ of 79 to be league average in LF.

Cedeno would need to play GG caliber defense and have an OPS+ of 68 to be league average.

I don't think Cedeno is viewed as a GG caliber defender but I believe he is looked at as an above average defensive player.

Not sure what the OPS would need to be to have a 79 and 68 OPS+.

Eh, I think they are making assumptions that I would not be cool with. I have been working on something like this off and on for a few weeks. I'll probably post on the Depot the results next week. For a left fielder who is able to make 24 plays more than the average LF saves about 20 runs. To rate out as an average glove (0 runs saved), average bat (344/442) LF, the guy needs to hit about 333/360 or 314/390 or 294/420 . . . you can make a line out of that. Pie's major league fielding though puts him at best at around +10 runs for center, so he can probably save about 15-20 runs in left.

So, yeah, he can probably be an average LF. You are right that this is more valuable than 2 draft picks. I think we can get more for Roberts than an average LF and would be willing to wait. I can understand why you would want to pull the trigger if such an offer would be available. I think we have several players (Scott and Reimold) who are just as capable to produce average left field production. I would target for organizational weakness with Roberts. The Cubs do not have the answers for that. As I have written before, I like Pie and would like him to be on the team. I do not think a Roberts trade would be a good way to do it as I think it wastes a valuable commodity on something that is not very valuable to us.

So, looking back on my words, yeah, it would seem Pie should be capable of playing left field at an average level. It should be kept in mind that he is a contact oriented hitter who somewhat struggled at the AAA level. Hitting 830 in Iowa is not impressive. It is not bad, but it is not as impressive and many would think it would be. Also, such a player is not very useful to use because we seem to have a couple folks who are just as capable. Therefore, Pie is probably someone who would not be of much use to us in 3-4 years as I wrote before. He does have breakout potential though . . . but, alas, he is more useful to a team who could plug him in at CF.

[SHAWN555]

So, yeah, he can probably be an average LF. You are right that this is more valuable than 2 draft picks. I think we can get more for Roberts than an average LF and would be willing to wait. I can understand why you would want to pull the trigger if such an offer would be available. I think we have several players (Scott and Reimold) who are just as capable to produce average left field production. I would target for organizational weakness with Roberts. The Cubs do not have the answers for that. As I have written before, I like Pie and would like him to be on the team. I do not think a Roberts trade would be a good way to do it as I think it wastes a valuable commodity on something that is not very valuable to us.

But we would be getting more than just Pie in this deal.

Cedeno would help with our total lack of middle infielders.

Wuertz would be a solid pen addition and help us if/when we move Sherrill.

We are not going to get a better deal than Cedeno/Pie/Wuertz/Hill.

[crawdad]

But we would be getting more than just Pie in this deal.

Cedeno would help with our total lack of middle infielders.

Wuertz would be a solid pen addition and help us if/when we move Sherrill.

We are not going to get a better deal than Cedeno/Pie/Wuertz/Hill.

I am looking 3-4 years down the line.

1) Cedeno is a utility guy in my opinion. He should not start. He will not get us closer to the playoffs.

2) Wuertz? We have so many bullpen arms in the minors that Wuertz is not going to be very valuable to us. He has a great arm, but we have a few guys with very good arms.

3) Hill? 28 year olds with limited success and a sudden collapse in control are pretty worthless.

[PaulBako]

I am looking 3-4 years down the line.

1) Cedeno is a utility guy in my opinion. He should not start. He will not get us closer to the playoffs.

2) Wuertz? We have so many bullpen arms in the minors that Wuertz is not going to be very valuable to us. He has a great arm, but we have a few guys with very good arms.

3) Hill? 28 year olds with limited success and a sudden collapse in control are pretty worthless.

Yeah I agree with that.

I'd like to get Pie, but none of the other players are anything special.

[El Gordo]

Eh, I think they are making assumptions that I would not be cool with. I have been working on something like this off and on for a few weeks. I'll probably post on the Depot the results next week. For a left fielder who is able to make 24 plays more than the average LF saves about 20 runs. To rate out as an average glove (0 runs saved), average bat (344/442) LF, the guy needs to hit about 333/360 or 314/390 or 294/420 . . . you can make a line out of that. Pie's major league fielding though puts him at best at around +10 runs for center, so he can probably save about 15-20 runs in left.

So, yeah, he can probably be an average LF. You are right that this is more valuable than 2 draft picks. I think we can get more for Roberts than an average LF and would be willing to wait. I can understand why you would want to pull the trigger if such an offer would be available. I think we have several players (Scott and Reimold) who are just as capable to produce average left field production. I would target for organizational weakness with Roberts. The Cubs do not have the answers for that. As I have written before, I like Pie and would like him to be on the team. I do not think a Roberts trade would be a good way to do it as I think it wastes a valuable commodity on something that is not very valuable to us.

So, looking back on my words, yeah, it would seem Pie should be capable of playing left field at an average level. It should be kept in mind that he is a contact oriented hitter who somewhat struggled at the AAA level. Hitting 830 in Iowa is not impressive. It is not bad, but it is not as impressive and many would think it would be. Also, such a player is not very useful to use because we seem to have a couple folks who are just as capable. Therefore, Pie is probably someone who would not be of much use to us in 3-4 years as I wrote before. He does have breakout potential though . . . but, alas, he is more useful to a team who could plug him in at CF.

Well to begin with the trade propopsal is for Pie, Hill, Cedeno, and Weurtze IIRC. So Pie maybe an average LF, but a superior CF, but so may be Cedeno at SS, and Hill has an upside of at least a #3 SP. and Weurtze is a solid RP.

[crawdad]

Well to begin with the trade propopsal is for Pie, Hill, Cedeno, and Weurtze IIRC. So Pie maybe an average LF, but a superior CF, but so may be Cedeno at SS, and Hill has an upside of at least a #3 SP. and Weurtze is a solid RP.

I think your read is a bit rosy here. Pie might be an average LF and should be an average CF. He has the ability to be average in left and to be above average in center. He profiles as a +15-20 in left and +10 in center. That is not superior production in center no matter how you cut it.

Cedeno is below average at short defensively and has not been able to swing consistently well in the majors. He is more of a 2B. Repeat, not a SS. He can fill short in a pinch but should not start there.

Hill is entering his 29 season. Upside? He is 29 and suffered complete loss of control. It is not likely that he will be able to correct that. He will be DFA'd either by the Cubs or by whoever trades for him. He will then sign a MiL contract.

Wuertz does indeed profile as a great arm in the pen. We have several of these coming up. I do not think we need to add to our depth there. It would be a wasteful acquisition.

[SHAWN555]

I am looking 3-4 years down the line.

1) Cedeno is a utility guy in my opinion. He should not start. He will not get us closer to the playoffs.

2) Wuertz? We have so many bullpen arms in the minors that Wuertz is not going to be very valuable to us. He has a great arm, but we have a few guys with very good arms.

3) Hill? 28 year olds with limited success and a sudden collapse in control are pretty worthless.

Ok.

Well what would you expect as a solid return for Roberts.

Keep in mind it is a one year rental for Roberts.

I just do not see how we do better than this trade for Robert.

Getz and Floyd for Brob and Sarfate would be a better trade for us, but not sure the white sox will do it.

I think Roberts value is alot less than alot of people think it is.

He is a great player, but he is one season away from free agency and 31 yrs old. We are not going to get any super young prospects for him.

[SHAWN555]

Cedeno is below average at short defensively and has not been able to swing consistently well in the majors. He is more of a 2B. Repeat, not a SS. He can fill short in a pinch but should not start there.

Well we do not have any second basemen in the system so if we can get a starting leftfielder and a starting second baseman for Roberts you have to do the deal.

Wuertz is a solid pen arm and can be insurance if we trade Sherrill towards the deadline.

[cindyluvsbrady]

I am on my rooftop screaming!!! Can no one hear me?

NO!:no:to trading My Perfect one!:hearts:

Go away Chicago!!!!!!!:angryfire:

[Sports Guy]

Eh, I think they are making assumptions that I would not be cool with. I have been working on something like this off and on for a few weeks. I'll probably post on the Depot the results next week. For a left fielder who is able to make 24 plays more than the average LF saves about 20 runs. To rate out as an average glove (0 runs saved), average bat (344/442) LF, the guy needs to hit about 333/360 or 314/390 or 294/420 . . . you can make a line out of that. Pie's major league fielding though puts him at best at around +10 runs for center, so he can probably save about 15-20 runs in left.

So, yeah, he can probably be an average LF. You are right that this is more valuable than 2 draft picks. I think we can get more for Roberts than an average LF and would be willing to wait. I can understand why you would want to pull the trigger if such an offer would be available. I think we have several players (Scott and Reimold) who are just as capable to produce average left field production. I would target for organizational weakness with Roberts. The Cubs do not have the answers for that. As I have written before, I like Pie and would like him to be on the team. I do not think a Roberts trade would be a good way to do it as I think it wastes a valuable commodity on something that is not very valuable to us.

So, looking back on my words, yeah, it would seem Pie should be capable of playing left field at an average level. It should be kept in mind that he is a contact oriented hitter who somewhat struggled at the AAA level. Hitting 830 in Iowa is not impressive. It is not bad, but it is not as impressive and many would think it would be. Also, such a player is not very useful to use because we seem to have a couple folks who are just as capable. Therefore, Pie is probably someone who would not be of much use to us in 3-4 years as I wrote before. He does have breakout potential though . . . but, alas, he is more useful to a team who could plug him in at CF.

It seems to me that you think we can get a Rasmus type prospect...An upper echelon guy that we can count on for 5-10 years.

I am not sure that you are being realistic in what the market for BRob is.

I hope you are right and hope we can get more but I don't think so.

I have the same reservations you do about Cedeno but I think you are underrating his defense.

[crawdad]

Ok.

Well what would you expect as a solid return for Roberts.

Keep in mind it is a one year rental for Roberts.

I just do not see how we do better than this trade for Robert.

Getz and Floyd for Brob and Sarfate would be a better trade for us, but not sure the white sox will do it.

I think Roberts value is alot less than alot of people think it is.

He is a great player, but he is one season away from free agency and 31 yrs old. We are not going to get any super young prospects for him.

Honestly, I do not know what is being or would be offered, just that we will be acquiring pieces that are not of dire need here. Pieces that are either worthless or redundant. I would be targeting infield prospects that have upside. Players like Brandon Wood, Josh Fields, Rickie Weeks, James Loney . . . guys like that and add a mid-level prospect. I'm not sure the market is there. If we exhaust the market and need to pull in redundancy then we need to look for something more useful from the Cubs. Maybe Pie+Vitters. I do not think the Cubs would do that. Loading up our 25 man with guys without options does not seem very smart to me. I would hold out for Vitters though.

[PaulBako]

I am on my rooftop screaming!!! Can no one hear me?

NO!:no:to trading My Perfect one!:hearts:

Go away Chicago!!!!!!!:angryfire:

I would like the Cubs to go away. They don't have any good young players to trade for Roberts.

[Sports Guy]

Honestly, I do not know what is being or would be offered, just that we will be acquiring pieces that are not of dire need here. Pieces that are either worthless or redundant. I would be targeting infield prospects that have upside. Players like Brandon Wood, Josh Fields, Rickie Weeks, James Loney . . . guys like that and add a mid-level prospect. I'm not sure the market is there. If we exhaust the market and need to pull in redundancy then we need to look for something more useful from the Cubs. Maybe Pie+Vitters. I do not think the Cubs would do that. Loading up our 25 man with guys without options does not seem very smart to me. I would hold out for Vitters though.

Fields? Weeks?

Even though we need IF prospects, I think I would want Pie as much as either of them, especially Fields.

The Angels have no use for BRob, so Wood isn't going to be dealt.

Something could maybe be worked out with Milwaukee but I would bet they would view Weeks as the main piece of the deal and I do not know that they are adding 2-3 more pieces.

And again, the idea they don't have options is meaningless...There would a spot for them on the team.

[crawdad]

It seems to me that you think we can get a Rasmus type prospect...An upper echelon guy that we can count on for 5-10 years.

I am not sure that you are being realistic in what the market for BRob is.

I hope you are right and hope we can get more but I don't think so.

I have the same reservations you do about Cedeno but I think you are underrating his defense.

Are you seriously reading what I write? I'll spell it out again . . . Pie is a redundancy. We should not be seeking out redundancies. The other guys are filler with little chance of breaking out. Wuertz is also a redundancy.

It is really annoying how you keep mischaracterizing my stand.

No, we cannot get a Rasmus. We can get a B or B+ level guy with upside along with a projectable B.

Cedeno does not have the skills to play shortstop. He has good range, but his arm is inconsistent.

[El Gordo]

I think your read is a bit rosy here. Pie might be an average LF and should be an average CF. He has the ability to be average in left and to be above average in center. He profiles as a +15-20 in left and +10 in center. That is not superior production in center no matter how you cut it.

Cedeno is below average at short defensively and has not been able to swing consistently well in the majors. He is more of a 2B. Repeat, not a SS. He can fill short in a pinch but should not start there.

Hill is entering his 29 season. Upside? He is 29 and suffered complete loss of control. It is not likely that he will be able to correct that. He will be DFA'd either by the Cubs or by whoever trades for him. He will then sign a MiL contract.

Wuertz does indeed profile as a great arm in the pen. We have several of these coming up. I do not think we need to add to our depth there. It would be a wasteful acquisition.

I don't agree about Hill, he had one season of serious control problems, but I don't see a history of that. Cedeno and Pie need to be given a shot at regular playing time before you dismiss them. The are gambles yes, but I wouldn't rule them out just yet, they are too young with too litle ML experience IMO.