BRob potential deals to the Cubs

[bigbird]

THis statement makes no zero sense.

It is very unlikely we get someone there who shows as much promise as Pie and Hill have shown.

Jordan likes to draft high schoolers...He likes to draft athletes first, baseball players second.

Those guys are much more likely to fail than succeed.

I would rather have the ML ready guys who have shown gone through the minors and played very well and are now ready to show what they can do over a full season.

Bill James projects Pie to have a 750ish OPS this year..Combine that with his speed and defense and you may have a league average LFer....Then, factor in salary, service time, upside and age and you have a guy that maybe by himself is worth dealing for BRob.

We already have a league average LF. If these guys were so special Hendry would find a place for them in Chicago. Pie is more likely to flop than succeed. Hill is a player that the Padres were not interested in when a Peavy trade was being talked about. The only player I would want in the Cubs system is Vitters.

[bigbird]

Its really no more risky a package than the Astros package was, especially since they knew of Patton's injury.

In this economy and with BRob having one more year left, I am not sure you could expect much more than that.

I really have very little doubt that the Cubs would jump at that deal.

Hell, I think they could do this AND get Peavy since we aren't likely to get anyone in that deal that would be going to the Pads anyway, except MAYBE Cedeno.

With the Astro package the main thing was dumping Miggy asap. The return was decent but nothing special for one of baseball's premier talents at the time. No where close to the Bedard trade.

[Sports Guy]

We already have a league average LF. If these guys were so special Hendry would find a place for them in Chicago. Pie is more likely to flop than succeed. Hill is a player that the Padres were not interested in when a Peavy trade was being talked about. The only player I would want in the Cubs system is Vitters.

So? Why pass up on a better, younger talent?

We need a DH or first baseman, so use Scott there.

And the idea that if they were so special, Hendry would use them is just absurd. He has a contending team that doesn't have time for projects...Doesn't have time to give young guys a chance to see what they can do.

That's all the orioles have right now...time.

[Sports Guy]

With the Astro package the main thing was dumping Miggy asap. The return was decent but nothing special for one of baseball's premier talents at the time. No where close to the Bedard trade.

But at this point, BRob isn't a much different situation.

Being able to acquire 4 MLers who are young cheap and all have good upside is a good deal for us.

They may all flop but I would still rather take my chances with that instead of giving the picks to Jordan to draft another project who is at least 4 years away from the majors.

[hoosiers]

Agree with bigbird here. Also, difficult to stomach living for a week or two earlier in the offseason thinking Olson was going to net Pie (since the Pads wanted Olson more than Pie), and now someone is advocating giving up BRob for a deal centered around Pie.

We'll see what Pie nets in the next few weeks, but I imagine it will be substantially less than BRob. Would anyone settle for moving Reimold for Pie (which I would not do)? The Cubs would downgrade to a respectable prospect who they would only have to put on the 40 man roster.

The other parts of the Cubs deal are pieces parts. Cedeno may show improvement as he closes in on peak age, but he has used up a decent part of his service time before FA - enough that there is not likely to be much value there.

Not interested. We need difference makers or at least well above average prospects for BRob.

[clapdiddy]

Agree with bigbird here. Also, difficult to stomach living for a week or two earlier in the offseason thinking Olson was going to net Pie (since the Pads wanted Olson more than Pie), and now someone is advocating giving up BRob for a deal centered around Pie.

We'll see what Pie nets in the next few weeks, but I imagine it will be substantially less than BRob. Would anyone settle for moving Reimold for Pie (which I would not do)? The Cubs would downgrade to a respectable prospect who they would only have to put on the 40 man roster.

The other parts of the Cubs deal are pieces parts. Cedeno may show improvement as he closes in on peak age, but he has used up a decent part of his service time before FA - enough that there is not likely to be much value there.

Not interested. We need difference makers or at least well above average prospects for BRob.

I respect BB's and your opinions on this, but I think the biggest need for this team right now is young, major-league ready talent.

I will give you that all of these guys from the Cubs would be risky. They have, however, had some level of success in the high minor leagues...and in Hill's case, he's one year removed from having a very good season with the Cubs.

Getting 2 draft picks for Roberts is nice, but draft picks are (in my opinion) even more risky than going for these players from the Cubs.

Truthfully, I think Roberts winds up signing an extension anyway, and this whole debate is moot!

[SHAWN555]

We are a team with several holes, we are not going to get a Vitters type prospect for Roberts.

If we can get Cedeno / Pie / Hill and Wuertz from chicago for BRob thats is a solid deal for us and one we should do.

Pie and Cedeno are both young players who should be given a chance to play everyday. Cedeno could replace brob or slide to short. Pie at the very least provides us with outstanding defense.

Hill is obviouslly struggling but could benefit from a change of scenary and a fresh start.

Wuertz would be a great addition to the pen.

If we make that trade and sign Ohlman for the pen we could also make Scott and Sherrill available to fill the shortstop or third base hole.

[hoosiers]

Pie and Cedeno are both young players who should be given a chance to play everyday. Cedeno could replace brob or slide to short. Pie at the very least provides us with outstanding defense.

A lot of guys COULD replace a lot of other guys ...

It is really just as likely that Reimold, Olson and Liz will have as or more productive major league careers than Pie at this point. I think most everyone here would like to take our chances with Pie, but let's be realistic about what he will become and start being realistic about what it would take to land him. Selling BRob for pieces parts is not realistic.

Heck, we should package 12 of our prospects outside our top eight for three BRob equivalents offer up a one year $12M deal for Dunn and we could get competitive in a hurry.

[SHAWN555]

A lot of guys COULD replace a lot of other guys ...

It is really just as likely that Reimold, Olson and Liz will have as or more productive major league careers than Pie at this point. I think most everyone here would like to take our chances with Pie, but let's be realistic about what he will become and start being realistic about what it would take to land him. Selling BRob for pieces parts is not realistic.

Heck, we should package 12 of our prospects outside our top eight for three BRob equivalents offer up a one year $12M deal for Dunn and we could get competitive in a hurry.

Yes lets be realistic.

Roberts is not going to net us top prospects along the lines of Vitters.

Trading Roberts for a young outfielder a young middle infielder alone is something worth consideration. This team has a lack of prospect depth at several positions and getting Cedeno and Pie would help.

These players are not blocking anyone, they are adding solid depth to our rosters and there is still a chance that Pie or Cedeno could put up solid numbers when given the chance to play everyday.

It is going to come down to us getting 3-4 solid young players for Roberts, no superstar prospects, or taking the draft picks when he walks.

I would rather take the cubs deal than take a chance with draft picks.

[maudibjr]

Cedeno just signed a 1 year with the clubs to avoid arbitration.

[bigbird]

I respect BB's and your opinions on this, but I think the biggest need for this team right now is young, major-league ready talent.

I will give you that all of these guys from the Cubs would be risky. They have, however, had some level of success in the high minor leagues...and in Hill's case, he's one year removed from having a very good season with the Cubs.

Getting 2 draft picks for Roberts is nice, but draft picks are (in my opinion) even more risky than going for these players from the Cubs.

Truthfully, I think Roberts winds up signing an extension anyway, and this whole debate is moot!

We need young, productive talent to help us contend. Pie and Cedeno do not fit that bill.

[Fairfax Bird]

With the Astro package the main thing was dumping Miggy asap. The return was decent but nothing special for one of baseball's premier talents at the time. No where close to the Bedard trade.

If you truly believe this, I question any opinion you have. Premier talent?

[Sports Guy]

Agree with bigbird here. Also, difficult to stomach living for a week or two earlier in the offseason thinking Olson was going to net Pie (since the Pads wanted Olson more than Pie), and now someone is advocating giving up BRob for a deal centered around Pie.

We'll see what Pie nets in the next few weeks, but I imagine it will be substantially less than BRob. Would anyone settle for moving Reimold for Pie (which I would not do)? The Cubs would downgrade to a respectable prospect who they would only have to put on the 40 man roster.

The other parts of the Cubs deal are pieces parts. Cedeno may show improvement as he closes in on peak age, but he has used up a decent part of his service time before FA - enough that there is not likely to be much value there.

Not interested. We need difference makers or at least well above average prospects for BRob.

Way to be unrealistic Mr MacPhail.

[Sports Guy]

We need young, productive talent to help us contend. Pie and Cedeno do not fit that bill.

Says who? and why?

[hoosiers]

Way to be unrealistic Mr MacPhail.

Thank you Mr Bavasi.