Hyde on the Infield plans

[Tony-OH]

16 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

That does not sound like Gunnar will be full time 3B. 

He won't be because I think it's clear they plan to play him at SS some as well. He'll also probably get particularly tough lefties off.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

He'll also probably get particularly tough lefties off.

Or, he’ll OPS 1.000 off them.  Growth mindset!  

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Or I’m actually paying attention to what the team said and has said over and over.  Frobby telling me something isn’t going to make me less surprised that the Os aren’t doing this.

I stand by my thought. I’m surprised that they aren’t playing him in other spots as a break glass in case of emergency type thing. 

You can stand by your thoughts, but you are being completely and utterly silly while digging your heels in for no other reason than because your Rob!

Again, tell us a situation where Mateo would play anywhere else but SS. Give us one scenario with the current roster that it would make defensive sense to play him anywhere but SS?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

You can stand by your thoughts, but you are being completely and utterly silly while digging your heels in for no other reason than because your Rob!

Again, tell us a situation where Mateo would play anywhere else but SS. Give us one scenario with the current roster that it would make defensive sense to play him anywhere but SS?

Hays, Mullins and Santander have a three way collision in the OF and McKenna is so distraught by it that he can’t enter the game.  

[jamalshw]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Or I’m actually paying attention to what the team said and has said over and over.  Frobby telling me something isn’t going to make me less surprised that the Os aren’t doing this.

I stand by my thought. I’m surprised that they aren’t playing him in other spots as a break glass in case of emergency type thing. 

I think some of it is also a showcase of him. His highest value is as an elite defensive SS with blazing speed. We know is offense is lackluster, but given his July/August run there's at least some level of hope he can be a bit more. I think the "break glass in case of emergency" scenario where he's play somewhere other than SS is less likely than them trading him. 

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that a trade could happen this spring sending Mateo somewhere if injury strikes a starting SS. We already saw it with the Dodgers and Gavin Lux (though they already have Miguel Rojas) and the WBC makes it even more likely to see again. 

And in the far more likely scenario where he stays with the Orioles, as pointed out there's very few scenarios (if any) where him playing anywhere but SS makes sense. I could squint my eyes and see a situation where getting him some reps in CF makes sense (if we don't keep McKenna on the roster but even so Hays is probably the backup for CF before Mateo would be), but in terms of the infield, I want him at SS. 

In any combination of infielders that include Mateo, he's at SS. 

Henderson moves between 3B and SS depending on if Mateo is in the lineup. If Henderson gets the day off and Mateo is playing, Mateo is still at SS with Urias likely at 3B...and, of course, later in the year, you have Ortiz and Westburg. 

I agree that the Orioles LOVE versatility, but that's more when they view a player's key trait to be his bat. For Mateo, the vast majority of his value comes from his defense at SS, moving him to a different position probably means the team is better suited to use a different player. 

 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

You can stand by your thoughts, but you are being completely and utterly silly while digging your heels in for no other reason than because your Rob!

Again, tell us a situation where Mateo would play anywhere else but SS. Give us one scenario with the current roster that it would make defensive sense to play him anywhere but SS?

Injuries..guys with hot bats(including Mateo) and needing to get guys in the lineup.  This wouldn’t be a long term thing or even something that would occur with any level of frequency.

But there are unquestionably circumstances that could arise where I could see the need for him to play some innings or a game or something like that at a different position and it just surprises me that they would take this stance with this particular player when they don’t have that stance for most players on the team or in the organization.

If they weren’t so adamant about versatility and whatnot, it wouldn’t surprise me. But since they are and since he had the athleticism to play elsewhere if needed, I’m surprised he’s not getting some reps elsewhere.

You are making this out to be a far bigger deal than I am. Im just surprised, that’s all. I personally wish he wasn’t even on the team, so the less of him the better.

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hays, Mullins and Santander have a three way collision in the OF and McKenna is so distraught by it that he can’t enter the game.  

See, now I was thinking Frazier, Mullins and McKenna collide and they all have to leave the game and Santander is at DH. That would leave Stowers in RF, with Vavra and Mateo able to play the outfield. Even then, McCann would just go to 1B with Mountcastle to LF, Vavra to CF and again, Mateo goes to SS with Gunnar going to 3B and Urias to 2B.

I guess in theory, Mountcastle could move over to 3B, keeping Gunnar at SS with Urias moving to 2B and perhaps allowing Mateo to play the OF. 

The fact that we are trying to think of silly ridiculous scenarios is exactly why Mateo is playing nowhere but SS while with the Orioles. 

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Or I’m actually paying attention to what the team said and has said over and over.  Frobby telling me something isn’t going to make me less surprised that the Os aren’t doing this.

I stand by my thought. I’m surprised that they aren’t playing him in other spots as a break glass in case of emergency type thing. 

Did they prize versatility last year, when he didn’t play a single inning anywhere but SS?

Honestly, even if he doesn’t get spring reps at other spots, I don’t think the O’s would hesitate to put Mateo at 2B or in the OF if an emergency arose where that made sense.   But I really think it’s far-fetched that it would ever happen.  

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Injuries..guys with hot bats(including Mateo) and needing to get guys in the lineup.  This wouldn’t be a long term thing or even something that would occur with any level of frequency.

But there are unquestionably circumstances that could arise where I could see the need for him to play some innings or a game or something like that at a different position and it just surprises me that they would take this stance with this particular player when they don’t have that stance for most players on the team or in the organization.

If they weren’t so adamant about versatility and whatnot, it wouldn’t surprise me. But since they are and since he had the athleticism to play elsewhere if needed, I’m surprised he’s not getting some reps elsewhere.

You are making this out to be a far bigger deal than I am. Im just surprised, that’s all. I personally wish he wasn’t even on the team, so the less of him the better.

Rob, I'm not making this a big deal all, I'm just showing you how silly your argument is. You still have not given a real scenario where it makes sense for Mateo to play anywhere but SS with the Orioles current projected roster. 

You can't just can't say hot bats or injuries, what actual scenario does it makes sense to have your best defensive SS play somewhere else on the field?

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Rob, I'm not making this a big deal all, I'm just showing you how silly your argument is. You still have not given a real scenario where it makes sense for Mateo to play anywhere but SS with the Orioles current projected roster. 

You can't just can't say hot bats or injuries, what actual scenario does it makes sense to have your best defensive SS play somewhere else on the field?

 

Tony, if you can’t figure out how injuries can play a part in things, I don’t know what to tell you.  I also don’t think you have any idea what my argument is or what I’m actually saying here.

Im not saying one injury.  It would take several injuries or extra inning situations or whatever for it to occur but it quite clearly and obviously could.

Now, as Frobby said, maybe they would do it anyway and the idea that he hasn’t played there wouldn’t stop them.

But yes, it surprises me that they aren’t usually some meaningless games/innings to not throw him around at second base or LF.

It’s really becoming a waste of my time talking in circles about this.

[jamalshw]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Injuries..guys with hot bats(including Mateo) and needing to get guys in the lineup.  This wouldn’t be a long term thing or even something that would occur with any level of frequency.

But there are unquestionably circumstances that could arise where I could see the need for him to play some innings or a game or something like that at a different position and it just surprises me that they would take this stance with this particular player when they don’t have that stance for most players on the team or in the organization.

If they weren’t so adamant about versatility and whatnot, it wouldn’t surprise me. But since they are and since he had the athleticism to play elsewhere if needed, I’m surprised he’s not getting some reps elsewhere.

You are making this out to be a far bigger deal than I am. Im just surprised, that’s all. I personally wish he wasn’t even on the team, so the less of him the better.

I've been trying to figure it out, but I just can't. I get injuries, but the list would have to be long and they'd all have to be day-to-day types (or in a single game) as to not just promote someone from the minors like Ortiz, Westburg, Norby, Cowser, etc. Given the glut of nearly ready prospects in the infield along with the likes of Henderson, Urias, Frazier and Vavra for some combination of 2B and 3B, I cannot even fathom a spot at 2B or 3B. 

For the OF, you have Mullins, Stowers, Santander, and Hays most days (one at DH). Injury happens, you have McKenna. Another injury, you have Vavra (unless he's not on the team then you have Frazier). 

You'd basically need two injuries in a single game before you get to Mateo at a different position and given that scenario is so unlikely and the length of time so small, I'm not sure how much you gain from getting Mateo a couple starts in CF (or wherever) in spring. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, jamalshw said:

I've been trying to figure it out, but I just can't. I get injuries, but the list would have to be long and they'd all have to be day-to-day types (or in a single game) as to not just promote someone from the minors like Ortiz, Westburg, Norby, Cowser, etc. Given the glut of nearly ready prospects in the infield along with the likes of Henderson, Urias, Frazier and Vavra for some combination of 2B and 3B, I cannot even fathom a spot at 2B or 3B. 

For the OF, you have Mullins, Stowers, Santander, and Hays most days (one at DH). Injury happens, you have McKenna. Another injury, you have Vavra (unless he's not on the team then you have Frazier). 

You'd basically need two injuries in a single game before you get to Mateo at a different position and given that scenario is so unlikely and the length of time so small, I'm not sure how much you gain from getting Mateo a couple starts in CF (or wherever) in spring. 

But Westburg, Ortiz, et al aren’t on the team for any one game and they wouldn’t be called up if someone was hurt for a few games but not IL worthy.

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Tony, if you can’t figure out how injuries can play a part in things, I don’t know what to tell you.  I also don’t think you have any idea what my argument is or what I’m actually saying here.

Im not saying one injury.  It would take several injuries or extra inning situations or whatever for it to occur but it quite clearly and obviously could.

Now, as Frobby said, maybe they would do it anyway and the idea that he hasn’t played there wouldn’t stop them.

But yes, it surprises me that they aren’t usually some meaningless games/innings to not throw him around at second base or LF.

It’s really becoming a waste of my time talking in circles about this.

I will take your refusal to create an actual scenario where it makes sense for Mateo to play anywhere else but SS as your defeat in this discussion.

You are right, no need to go in circles. You were unable to defend your position and lost. Let's move on.

[LookinUp]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Amaya got dealt to Marlins for Miguel Rojas, who is a 34 year old version of Mateo without the speed and upside.   The Dodgers aren’t desperate.  Lux wasn’t great to begin with.   Rojas can provide solid D.   I think they can roll with Rojas and see where they’re at at the trade deadline.

Miguel Rojas had a .605 OPS/72 OPS+ last year in 471 AB. That was good for 2.5 WAR, so he must have D value.

Jorge Mateo had a .646 OPS/81 OPS+ in 494 AB. That was 3.4 WAR.

[RZNJ]

Just now, LookinUp said:

Miguel Rojas had a .605 OPS/72 OPS+ last year in 471 AB. That was good for 2.5 WAR, so he must have D value.

Jorge Mateo had a .646 OPS/81 OPS+ in 494 AB. That was 3.4 WAR.

Rojas is 34 so maybe he’s on the downside but his career OPS is .672.