The Outfield Switch

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

10 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Yeah, I don't buy this excuse one bit. Hitters have evolved just like pitchers. And the majority of them were never consciously trying to beat the shift. Probably because there's more money to be made hitting HRs than there is in hitting singles. Look at the AL batting league champ last season. He was so lauded for his accomplishments that he was traded this offseason!

Yeah this is the point I was going to make. It's not like hitters haven't evolved and the overall athletic conditioning of today's players is way more advanced then back in the 80's and 90's.

Thanks to the player conditioning programs of today the elite hitters' bat speed and maximum strength should be a tad better to what it would have been if they played in the 80's or 90's.

I'll grant pitching has probably advanced more than hitting, but I think the advent of analytics with the focus on home runs, drawing walks, launch angles and strikeouts aren't bad anymore. So the players of today are in a mindset of I'll try to hit home run every time or strikeout trying and draw a walk if the pitcher is wild.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by OsFanSinceThe80s

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Yeah, I don't buy this excuse one bit. Hitters have evolved just like pitchers. And the majority of them were never consciously trying to beat the shift. Probably because there's more money to be made hitting HRs than there is in hitting singles. Look at the AL batting league champ last season. He was so lauded for his accomplishments that he was traded this offseason!

So you say they evolved?  To me if something evolves it implies improvement.  So the current approach would be an improvement over the old one.

Why should they be using a less optimal strategy?  Just because you find it more aesthetically pleasing?  If doing it the "unevolved" way superior they wouldn't have evolved away from it.

2 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

While that is absolutely true, we are comparing Davis/Gallo to HoF Murray. I am confident that Eddie, the guy who owned the GWRBI stat in the AL, would find a way to go opposite field even in today's environment. 

I think Murray would be using the same approach that every other slugger in the game uses.  I also think his season high for homeruns would be higher than 33.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Yeah this is the point I was going to make. It's not like hitters haven't evolved and the overall athletic conditioning of today's players is way more advanced then back in the 80's and 90's.

Thanks to the player conditioning programs of today the elite hitters' bat speed and maximum strength should be a tad better to what it would have been if they played in the 80's or 90's.

I'll grant pitching has probably advanced more than hitting, but I think the advent of analytics with the focus on home runs, drawing walks, launch angles and strikeouts aren't bad anymore. So the players of today are in a mindset of I'll try to hit home run every time or strikeout trying and draw a walk if the pitcher is wild.

 

Right, because over the long haul that results in more runs being scored.

That's the goal.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

I'm not sure why this comment hasn't started a discussion but they have 15 or 20 seconds to pitch depending on runners. As long as the hitter is "set" at the 8 second mark, is there any restriction on a switch hitter changing sides. He could even do it between pitches further complicating things. Eight seconds seems like a long time but if the LF or RF has to take 3-4 seconds to recognize the change and then hustle across the outfield, he likely won't be optimally positioned.

Quote

The batter can switch until the pitcher comes to a set position to pitch, and the batter may change sides as many times as he chooses.

Unless they changed it this year.

Having Adley go weak side against a pitcher while participating in shenanigans is probably going to be less successful than him simply hitting against an outfield shift.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[AnythingO's]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you say they evolved?  To me if something evolves it implies improvement.  So the current approach would be an improvement over the old one. Why should they be using a less optimal strategy?  Just because you find it more aesthetically pleasing?  If doing it the "unevolved" way superior they wouldn't have evolved away from it.

I think Murray would be using the same approach that every other slugger in the game uses.  I also think his season high for homeruns would be higher than 33.

For the first part, the evolution created economic benefits. The long ball mentality being "rewarded" created the Davis/Gallo mindset.

In talking about Eddie, setting aside superior physical skills, his mindset was to do whatever it took to win. My comment was based on that mindset not "evolving" to pander for profit.

[HakunaSakata]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you say they evolved?  To me if something evolves it implies improvement.  So the current approach would be an improvement over the old one.

Why should they be using a less optimal strategy?  Just because you find it more aesthetically pleasing?  If doing it the "unevolved" way superior they wouldn't have evolved away from it.

I think Murray would be using the same approach that every other slugger in the game uses.  I also think his season high for homeruns would be higher than 33.

They've evolved in the sense that they have gotten better athletically and skills wise just like pitchers. There's no doubt in mind that modern day hitters had the ability to be beat the shift, they just chose not too for the reason I mentioned in my first reply. It's all about the money. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

They've evolved in the sense that they have gotten better athletically and skills wise just like pitchers. There's no doubt in mind that modern day hitters had the ability to be beat the shift, they just chose not too for the reason I mentioned in my first reply. It's all about the money. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

They've evolved in the sense that they have gotten better athletically and skills wise just like pitchers. There's no doubt in mind that modern day hitters had the ability to be beat the shift, they just chose not too for the reason I mentioned in my first reply. It's all about the money. 

Right, and they make more money because their strategy is more conducive to scoring runs.  (I'll also state that I think it is more difficult to do now then in the past, which changes the value of the approach)

You accept that teams are teaching this approach right?  If the Orioles wanted guys that played in that manner they'd draft and develop them to do it.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

For the first part, the evolution created economic benefits. The long ball mentality being "rewarded" created the Davis/Gallo mindset.

In talking about Eddie, setting aside superior physical skills, his mindset was to do whatever it took to win. My comment was based on that mindset not "evolving" to pander for profit.

If it wasn't more effective teams wouldn't pay more for it!

Do you think all the teams are stupid?

If slapping the ball the other way was more effective teams would covet it and that would lead to players with that skill set being paid more.

 

[Just Regular]

It'd be nice to have Pull/Center/Oppo numbers on .400-hitting Connor Norby from East Carolina to compare with what he's been coached up to do the last couple seasons.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

It'd be nice to have Pull/Center/Oppo numbers on .400-hitting Connor Norby from East Carolina to compare with what he's been coached up to do the last couple seasons.

I don't know.

Maybe every team is wrong and some random internet message board posters have the real answers.

But I find it funny that the board consensuses is that the O's are doing a really good job developing these hitters and yet they teaching them the wrong way (or that the players go maverick for the big bucks).

[Winter]

1 hour ago, AnythingO's said:

I'm not sure why this comment hasn't started a discussion but they have 15 or 20 seconds to pitch depending on runners. As long as the hitter is "set" at the 8 second mark, is there any restriction on a switch hitter changing sides. He could even do it between pitches further complicating things. Eight seconds seems like a long time but if the LF or RF has to take 3-4 seconds to recognize the change and then hustle across the outfield, he likely won't be optimally positioned.

If he goes to the plate in the right batters box sure the LF can run back to LF but then the pitcher throws a pitch, Rutsch can switch to left handed, is the LF just going to keep running back and fourth in the 8 seconds or so he has to try to reposition? Lol i surely hope switch hitters do this... as i have looked into it and the batters can switch hands after a pitch. 

[Frobby]

It’s not that easy to steer which way you hit a major league pitch.  This ain’t slow pitch softball.  You’ve got 0.4 seconds from when the pitch leaves the pitchers hand to figure out whether it’s a 95 mph fastball or a low 80’s offspeed pitch, whether it’s going to be in the strike zone and where, and try to hit it hard.   

[webbrick2010]

I hate the shift restrictions.

Fits with the times, even baseball players aren't allowed free choice

[AnythingO's]

13 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If it wasn't more effective teams wouldn't pay more for it! Do you think all the teams are stupid?

If slapping the ball the other way was more effective teams would covet it and that would lead to players with that skill set being paid more.

 

I don't know how to define "effective", is it scoring or attendance or??? I don't think I implied anyone was stupid.

I think it comes down to perception, what does the fan want to see, what does the media glorify. In the end that is what drives salaries. I didn't imply slapping the ball the other way was easy but ME seems to be developing hitters that use the whole field approach.