Ramon Urias 2023

[DirtyBird]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

If he is as good as you believe him to be than this would be a false statement.

Why?

[Sports Guy]

Just now, DirtyBird said:

Why?

Because if he is truly an everyday 3.5ish WAR guy, he has a lot of value. 
 

You are one of the many people who like to tout players as can’t trade, must have type guys and then say they have no value. How do they lack value if they are that good?

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because if he is truly an everyday 3.5ish WAR guy, he has a lot of value. 
 

You are one of the many people who like to tout players as can’t trade, must have type guys and then say they have no value. How do they lack value if they are that good?

If you have a valid point, why are you making things up that I said? Where did I say he was an everyday 3.5 WAR player?

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

If you have a valid point, why are you making things up that I said? Where did I say he was an everyday 3.5 WAR player?

So, all of the posts you have made about him, sending down Gunnar, etc..have nothing to do with the player Urias was last year?

Edited May 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Then back to your original question - Urias and Norby will not return a SP better than anything we currently have in the rotation.

Urias provides the current team with more value than anything he would help return in a trade.

Agree with the first. The second is only true if Westburg/Frazier/Ortiz alternatives are worse than Urias. It is possible they could be the same or better, in which case Urias does not provide value. It's hard to know until we give those guys a chance. Similar to the Jorge Lopez deal, it is possible we could replace some or all of Urias's production and get back some assets that help us now or maybe in the future. 

[DirtyBird]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

So, all of the posts you have made about him, sending down Gunnar, etc..have nothing to do with the player Urias was last year?

No, it had to do with Gunnar's performance.

Now back to the topic and hand - Urias provides more value to this team, whether it be in full-time or part-time role than he is going to add in a trade. 

Urias and Norby are not going to bring back a starting pitcher better than Kremer.

Urias is a more reliable player to bring off the bench in a critical spot than Ortiz or Westburg this season

[interloper]

It's tough to trade Urias right now. I trust him much more than any top prospect in a playoff situation against elite pitching. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

It's tough to trade Urias right now. I trust him much more than any top prospect in a playoff situation against elite pitching. 

How can you say that without giving said top prospect a real chance?

[interloper]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

How can you say that without giving said top prospect a real chance?

I think no matter what a top prospect does in the regular season this year, other than Adley, I'd probably still take my chances with Urias. Not saying our prospects can't have success in the playoffs, but it's a lot to handle in your rookie season. I trust Urias to stay calm and put together a good pesky AB. 

I'm not saying trading Urias is out of the question, just that it's a tough decision because he's such a big part of why this current team is good. 

And - this is an evolving opinion based on how we're playing, obviously. I was fully in favor of trading him over the off-season. Now... I'm much more hesitant until next off-season. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

Just now, interloper said:

I think no matter what a top prospect does in the regular season this year, other than Adley, I'd probably still take my chances with Urias. Not saying our prospects can't have success in the playoffs, but it's a lot to handle in your rookie season. I trust Urias to stay calm and put together a good pesky AB. 

I'm not saying trading Urias is out of the question, just that it's a tough decision because he's such a big part of why this current team is good. 

I like Urias a lot and I agree that he can put together excellent at bats but I don’t think you miss him all that much if you trade him.

Personally, I would rather keep Urias and trade Mateo, since Urias can play in more positions and I like his bat more.

In your playoff scenario, Mateo would be completely useless at the plate because of how the best teams would pitch to him. He would value in the field and on the bases of course.

[TommyPickles]

Mateo: 4.8 rWAR in 829 career ABs

Urias: 6.6 rWAR in 787 career ABs

Frazier: 1.5 rWAR in his last 666 ABs

 

I'd rather keep Urias over Mateo. I'd rather see Frazier moved to a bench role than either of them.

[webbrick2010]

Frazier is the first needed to be traded, but we will have to add in a mid tier prospect (Norby, Mayo) to get anyone to take him and at least half his salary

[RVAOsFan]

I think I would personally lean toward trading Mateo right now as mentioned above but Elias made a point in his interview last night to mention that Mateo is the best defensive SS we have in the organization which says to me he is our starting SS until Holiday makes his debut.

In the end though it might just come down to who offers us what.  May just come down to the team that lines up best with us for a trade has a preference of Mateo or Urias and that is who goes.

Also just to make sure I am clear I am not saying trade one of these guys to do it but the infield is starting to get crowded with options and if a player can be had at a different position that makes the overall team better I think we should do it.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

How can you say that without giving said top prospect a real chance?

It's fair to say we trust Urias more. He has an established floor. Westburg and Ortiz may have more upside, but relying on prospects is risky when you're trying to win games. The prospects are as ready as they are going to be and they very well could outperform Urias, but there is some risk there that you don't have with more of a known quantity. 

[Jammer7]

They could trade a veteran like Urias to take advantage of his now value. I do agree that he has solid value and is, to me, a solid MLB veteran bat to have in a part-time role. I do not think he is more productive everyday at 3B than Gunnar is going to be there. Not this year nor in the long term. I do not think he is a GG level 2B, but he's average. The bat is solid off the bench, and he is the kind of guy who will get hits and great at bats in big moments in big games. 

Urias and Frazier are similar in that they should be bench pieces. Both can give a quality at bat and get hits against top pitching. Their swing mechanics and approaches are playable in that role, and they are "pros." Do we need both in a bench role? Could we move Westburg into Urias' role and add his COF versatility? I think so, honestly. I would be tempted to not DH Rutschman much on his off days from catching. It would allow Cowser and Westburg to get those at bats. They need as many as possible. 

I would send Vavra down when Urias comes back, and keep Ortiz at 2B on most days. Cowser could soon make O'Hearn expendable, and I like O'Hearn. With Santander able to play 1B, O'Hearn's profile is not really a need.  Below is what I would do, and I would do it sooner than later.

1B - Mountcastle 

2B - Ortiz (R)

SS - Mateo

3B - Henderson* (R)

INF - Frazier*

INF - Westburg (R)

C - Rutschman#

C - McCann

LF - Hays

CF - Mullins*

RF - Santander#

OF - Cowser* (R)

OF - McKenna