Why isn't Ortiz in Baltimore instead of Mateo?

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Do we have to DFA? Is there a revocable waivers that’s done quietly?

No, that’s over. 

[Sports Guy]

When talking about the deadline, Elias spoke about needing to do something for the playoffs, not to just get into the playoffs.

Im looking at Mateo the same way. With them continuing to keep him on the roster, that tells me that they value his speed so much in the playoffs.  He has a roster spot just for that.

I don’t know what else it could be. If they were down on Ortiz, he would have been dealt a few days ago, so I don’t believe it’s that.

[sportsfan8703]

Ortiz, Cowser, and Westburg, have a combined .500 OPS with 49SO/14BB in 187 PA this year. Mateo has a .596 OPS in 282 PA. 

Ortiz is not the savior. Just like how Westburg and Cowser haven’t been either. They’re rookies. They’re going to have a tough adjustment period. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by sportsfan8703

[Bemorewins]

I’ve been back and forth on Ortiz this year. Because I incorrectly assumed that the team was going to move either him or Westburg as part of a package for pitching. But at this point, since it looks like we are planning on keeping everyone, what would it hurt to bring him up and give him Mateo’s ABs/reps? 

As I stated before, all Mateo does well now is run fast. That in and of itself is not a valuable enough skill to justify a spot on the 26 man IMO. There are simply not enough situation where it is needed.

[sportsfan8703]

We know what we have in Ortiz. So do the opposition scouts. Same with Cowser and Westburg. I think it’s just a matter of that AAA pitching can’t exploit their weaknesses like MLB pitching can. So we’re weighing Mateo’s weaknesses versus Ortiz’s weaknesses. Maybe we think it’s even right now, and the tie goes to Mateo. 

I still think Ortiz will be a part of a 5 man IF rotation next year, but Holliday is the long term everyday piece. Only Holliday’s recent illness can slow him down. 

[DirtyBird]

47 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Ortiz, Cowser, and Westburg, have a combined .500 OPS with 49SO/14BB in 187 PA this year. Mateo has a .596 OPS in 282 PA. 

Ortiz is not the savior. Just like how Westburg and Cowser haven’t been either. They’re rookies. They’re going to have a tough adjustment period. 

Well, Westburg has put together some solid AB's and has an OPS+ of 99, so shouldn't be lumped in with Cowser to bring the numbers down. 

And Ortiz has a + glove, so even if he does struggle at the plate, he still brings something Mateo is struggling with.

[sportsfan8703]

Imagine being so spoiled as fans that your big complaint about a team is which defensive minded SS should bat 9th in 3-4 games a week. 
 

Oh and don’t get too comfortable Mr. McCann in that backup C role. We have this fella named Maverick in AAA. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by sportsfan8703

[turtlebowl]

All they need to do is have Mateo suffer from a case of back spasms.  He rests for a couple weeks then does a rehab assignment then you bring him back when rosters expand.  At that point you should have a good feel if the team is covered enough with Ortiz and Gunner at short.  Again the only thing I would want Ortiz for now is to be a pinch runner - stolen base threat in the playoffs.  If it wasn't for that I would just release him.

[sportsfan8703]

I think the FO knows that our playoff alignment is Gunnar at SS, Frazier at 2B, and Westburg/Urias at 3B. So Mateo is just a regular season option at SS over 162. Honestly, in a playoff series… Mateo is more valuable than Ortiz. Pinch running abilities. 

[Greg Pappas]

25 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Imagine being so spoiled as fans that your big complaint about a team is which defensive minded SS should bat 9th in 3-4 games a week. 
 

Oh and don’t get too comfortable Mr. McCann in that backup C role. We have this fella named Maverick in AAA. 

Are you seriously judging Ortiz as a "defensive minded SS" on his 34 plate appearances earlier this year, instead of his .983 OPS in AAA in 384 PA's in the past two seasons?  Look, I don't think Ortiz is a savior, at all... I just think he'll be a solid bat that maybe will be around a .780 OPS (like Bowie in 2022) guy with very good defense at SS.  He runs well, but agree he is not a stolen base threat, like Mateo.  I guess it comes down to what you want on your team.  A poor hitting, very good defender at SS (usually) with excellent speed and stolen base skills or a (probably) much better hitter who is very good defensively at SS, but isn't a SB threat.  In the uncommon instances that Mateo pinch runs and makes a difference, I bet Ortiz creates a bunch more value with his bat.

To your point that rookies struggle, I agree that is the case for many.  But I'm not going to assume Ortiz will struggle because Cowser has.  When a prospect is 25 years old and playing incredible ball at AAA over an extended period AND the player ahead of him on the roster is playing very poorly, well, it's time. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Greg Pappas

[bluedog]

12 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

While I'm as ready to move on from Mateo as others here, we shouldn't forget that Fuji beaned in 2 go-ahead runs that really cost us the game.

We beat ourselves and that's what stings the most about tonight's game.

This thread isn't about last nights loss. It's about the fact we have a guy posting a sub .600 OPS in the majors who is routinely making defensive and baserunning mistakes even though he's ostensibly here for his glove / legs AND the fact we have a player at AAA with a +glove hitting .358 with a near 1.000 OPS who is already on the 40 man who could replace him.

Mateo's lack of performance and Ortiz going 5 - 8 with two 2bs last night are just the latest reminders that we may have a better option available to us.

Edited August 3, 2023 by bluedog

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Imagine being so spoiled as fans that your big complaint about a team is which defensive minded SS should bat 9th in 3-4 games a week. 
 

Oh and don’t get too comfortable Mr. McCann in that backup C role. We have this fella named Maverick in AAA. 

Just when I thought your posts couldn’t get any worse…

[bluedog]

1 hour ago, Greg Pappas said:

Are you seriously judging Ortiz as a "defensive minded SS" on his 34 plate appearances earlier this year, instead of his .983 OPS in AAA in 384 PA's in the past two seasons?  Look, I don't think Ortiz is a savior, at all... I just think he'll be a solid bat that maybe will be around a .780 OPS (like Bowie in 2022) guy with very good defense at SS.  He runs well, but agree he is not a stolen base threat, like Mateo.  I guess it comes down to what you want on your team.  A poor hitting, very good defender at SS (usually) with excellent speed and stolen base skills or a (probably) much better hitter who is very good defensively at SS, but isn't a SB threat.  In the uncommon instances that Mateo pinch runs and makes a difference, I bet Ortiz creates a bunch more value with his bat.

To your point that rookies struggle, I agree that is the case for many.  But I'm not going to assume Ortiz will struggle because Cowser has.  When a prospect is 25 years old and playing incredible ball at AAA over an extended period AND the player ahead of him on the roster is playing very poorly, well, it's time. 

Love this post.

To add on, what kind of culture do the O's want? One where there is accountability for poor performance and merit based promotion for outstanding performance? I've never known a competitive player in team sports who wanted any other culture.

[Gurgi]

Only thing I can think of why we keep Mateo around is what someone else said.  The Orioles are looking ahead to the playoffs and using his speed to try to win a close game.  It is the only thing that makes any sense at this point.

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, Greg Pappas said:

Are you seriously judging Ortiz as a "defensive minded SS" on his 34 plate appearances earlier this year, instead of his .983 OPS in AAA in 384 PA's in the past two seasons?  Look, I don't think Ortiz is a savior, at all... I just think he'll be a solid bat that maybe will be around a .780 OPS (like Bowie in 2022) guy with very good defense at SS.  He runs well, but agree he is not a stolen base threat, like Mateo.  I guess it comes down to what you want on your team.  A poor hitting, very good defender at SS (usually) with excellent speed and stolen base skills or a (probably) much better hitter who is very good defensively at SS, but isn't a SB threat.  In the uncommon instances that Mateo pinch runs and makes a difference, I bet Ortiz creates a bunch more value with his bat.

To your point that rookies struggle, I agree that is the case for many.  But I'm not going to assume Ortiz will struggle because Cowser has.  When a prospect is 25 years old and playing incredible ball at AAA over an extended period AND the player ahead of him on the roster is playing very poorly, well, it's time. 

What roster move needs to happen after Ortiz?  The outcry after every loss isn’t going to stop. It’s never “we just had a bad game”, it’s always some injustice. Before it was Westburg and Cowser. The only other spot it can go is to Maverick Handley for McCann. Or Vespi for Perez.