The Orioles Bullpen, They can fix it

[Malike]

Fix the bullpen by getting starters who can go longer in games. That's the solution!

[Mendoza Line]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Something far too often overlooked.  

It's a general criticism I have of Hyde as compared to Buck Showalter.  

Hyde is too match up obsessed. In close games it is defensible but like on Monday why are we doing match ups in the 9th inning when we have a 4 run lead? We see too often box scores of guys with 0.2 of an inning and it isn't always because they've been completely ineffective.

Can you image what it would be like this year if there wasn't the 3 batter minimum rule?

[EddeeEddee]

Fangraphs and MLB shows Orioles' relievers as only the 20th most used in terms of innings pitched -- 542 innings -- far fewer than Tampa at 618 innings (4th most).  So if the O's bullpen is struggling it's not because of the number of innings. 

So maybe recent bp struggles are more to do with the quality of the relievers we've picked up since the deadline like Fujinami and Lopez -- more so than the bp as a whole being overused.  

[OriolesMagic83]

41 minutes ago, Mendoza Line said:

Hyde is too match up obsessed. In close games it is defensible but like on Monday why are we doing match ups in the 9th inning when we have a 4 run lead? We see too often box scores of guys with 0.2 of an inning and it isn't always because they've been completely ineffective.

Can you image what it would be like this year if there wasn't the 3 batter minimum rule?

Or they pitch an inning but only throw 6 or 7 pitches and are lights out, and then Hyde brings in a different reliever the next inning who has been very shaky.  If you bring in enough relievers, you are going to find one who doesn't have it that day.

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Sydnor said:

Perez over the past 2 months has a 1.29 ERA, a 2.40 FIP, and 1 K/Inning. He is the last bullpen arm you should want off of this team right now. You cannot pitch these guys 4 out of 5 days and expect perfection.

Exactly.  He needs rest.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

45 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Fangraphs and MLB shows Orioles' relievers as only the 20th most used in terms of innings pitched -- 542 innings -- far fewer than Tampa at 618 innings (4th most).  So if the O's bullpen is struggling it's not because of the number of innings. 

So maybe recent bp struggles are more to do with the quality of the relievers we've picked up since the deadline like Fujinami and Lopez -- more so than the bp as a whole being overused.  

We’re trading innings Bautista would have pitched for the likes of Lopez and Fuji. It’s only natural the bullpen would be struggling right now. 

And Cano gets forced into more of closer role instead of setting up for Bautista. 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Mendoza Line said:

Hyde is too match up obsessed. In close games it is defensible but like on Monday why are we doing match ups in the 9th inning when we have a 4 run lead? We see too often box scores of guys with 0.2 of an inning and it isn't always because they've been completely ineffective.

Can you image what it would be like this year if there wasn't the 3 batter minimum rule?

I have no problem with the matchup strategy. In the absence of Bautista we need to give our guys every advantage they can get. To make it work we should have moved Flaherty to the bullpen earlier, and/or made more bullpen moves to keep the bullpen fresh. 

Regarding the Houston game, there were guys on base against a very tough lineup. You absolutely don't want Cano facing a lefty there. I have no problem with nailing down the win today and worrying about tomorrow, tomorrow. But you should make a bullpen move to make sure you have fresh guys.

[Mendoza Line]

13 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I have no problem with the matchup strategy. In the absence of Bautista we need to give our guys every advantage they can get. To make it work we should have moved Flaherty to the bullpen earlier, and/or made more bullpen moves to keep the bullpen fresh. 

Regarding the Houston game, there were guys on base against a very tough lineup. You absolutely don't want Cano facing a lefty there. I have no problem with nailing down the win today and worrying about tomorrow, tomorrow. But you should make a bullpen move to make sure you have fresh guys.

You can't trust your best healthy reliever with a 4 run lead, 2 outs and a single base runner in the 9th? Worst case scenario he gives up a HR and we still have a comfortable lead. Instead you need to use your second best reliever for the matchup?

My point is that Cano didn't need to be there in the first place. Used for the 3rd day in a row, unnecessarily. He would have been much more of a use in a game against that same ominous lineup protecting a 1 run or tie the next game, in which he would have been available.

[spiritof66]

22 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

      .   .   .

Regarding the Houston game, there were guys on base against a very tough lineup. You absolutely don't want Cano facing a lefty there. I have no problem with nailing down the win today and worrying about tomorrow, tomorrow. But you should make a bullpen move to make sure you have fresh guys.

Tomorrow has arrived, and there's plenty to worry about as far as the bullpen is concerned.   

[EddeeEddee]

45 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

We’re trading innings Bautista would have pitched for the likes of Lopez and Fuji. It’s only natural the bullpen would be struggling right now. 

And Cano gets forced into more of closer role instead of setting up for Bautista. 

For sure.  But it doesn't appear the bullpen is overworked generally speaking.  

[Malike]

1 hour ago, EddeeEddee said:

Fangraphs and MLB shows Orioles' relievers as only the 20th most used in terms of innings pitched -- 542 innings -- far fewer than Tampa at 618 innings (4th most).  So if the O's bullpen is struggling it's not because of the number of innings. 

So maybe recent bp struggles are more to do with the quality of the relievers we've picked up since the deadline like Fujinami and Lopez -- more so than the bp as a whole being overused.  

This might be deceptive. How many relief pitchers has Tampa used this year? How many relief pitchers have the O's used? I don't have the information nor the desire to dig at 1 a.m. but just because they pitched more innings, doesn't mean they've been used more if they've used more pitchers than we have.

Edit:

We've used 26 relievers, including guys like Givens, Garrett, Bazardo, McCann, McKenna and Josh Lester. 

Tampa has used 33 this season.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Malike

[jrobb21613]

Is Rodriguez to the pen in the playoffs out of the question? As of right now he’s thrown about 150 innings. If I remember correctly did t Tampa do something similar with David Price?

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, Pickles said:

Webb, Bauman, or Perez.

In a bullpen that has both the utterly unreliable Shintaro Fujinami and the very reliable (for giving up runs) Jorge Lopez, those are the guys you want to see gone? 

Maybe Baumann, but Perez has been excellent since late May and Webb has an ERA just north of 3 (with a FIP just south of it to match) since joining the club. 

Could just be me, but I’d much rather see the pothole come for one of the guys that are genuinely bad.

[Aristotelian]

6 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

Tomorrow has arrived, and there's plenty to worry about as far as the bullpen is concerned.   

I don't know what you're saying here. I am definitely concerned about bullpen strength and depth. I'm also glad we won the game that we did. When we don't have enough guys available we should make roster moves and bring up a fresh arm.

[Uli2001]

My theory is that Elias was not planning for the Orioles to be a contender this season, and did not build a bullpen accordingly.