Rosenthal: Holt had trouble communicating with pitchers

[Moose Milligan]

buh buh buuuuuuummmmmm....

 

https://theathletic.com/5067797/2023/11/16/cy-young-ballot-snell-strider/

Changes in coaching staffs are common throughout the sport, and Holt at times struggled to communicate with his pitchers, according to major-league sources who spoke on condition of anonymity in exchange for their candor. The Orioles’ goal, according to a source briefed on the club’s thinking, is to provide different messaging to their younger pitchers as they mature. General manager Mike Elias declined comment.

Whatever issues existed with Holt and Holmes, they did not seem to show up in the team’s performance. The Orioles’ success stories last season included starters Kyle Bradish and Grayson Rodriguez, both of whom had sub-2.60 ERAs after the All-Star break, and relievers such as Yennier Cano and Danny Coulombe, both of whom joined the club in minor trades. Bradish finished fourth for the AL Cy Young award.

“There’s not normally a coach that you have that everyone gets along with or even you get along with all the time. That’s just the nature of working with people,” said right-hander Kyle Gibson, who spent last season with the Orioles and is now a free agent. “But I think everybody on that staff, from the conversations I had, knew everybody had Holty’s best interests in mind. Which I think is really 80 percent of the battle.

“It’s easy for coaches at times to mold guys how they want ‘em, have their fingerprints on things. But I don’t necessarily feel Holty was that way. And I think everybody on that staff, whether they got along or didn’t get along or whatever they thought about him, knew he had their best interests in mind. Same thing with Holmey. Mostly everyone liked Holmey. And he was good at what he did.”

Gibson, though, believes the organization warrants the benefit of the doubt.

“I know just from the things I’ve seen the Orioles do, they plan out everything they do,” he said. “They seem like they are on top of and have their ducks in a row most of the time, if not all of the time. I think that’s what is interesting to me. What do they have planned? For the most part, they haven’t given me any reason to think they don’t have a pretty good thing in mind whenever they make decisions like this.”

[wildcard]

I don't think this is a good read on what is happening with Holt and the O's pitching coaches. 

My thoughts are that Holt is one of Elias 1st hires and came with him from Houston.   They have been together for 5 years in Baltimore and Holt has shown the ability to build a good pitching staff with some of the pitchers coming right off the waiver wire.  That takes coaching talent.

I think Holt not being the O's pitching coach is Holt's idea.   Maybe its the travel.  Maybe it's the grind.    But he is holding the director of major and minor league pitching title that he had in 2019 and 2020.   I think Holt is trusted and this move is what he needs to do right now.  Maybe for personal reasons.

I suspect that Ramsey is the choice for major league pitching coach.   I think Holmes probably thought he should have been in line for that job and if he was not offered it decided he wanted to look around which the O's granted.

I don't think its certain that Holmes will not be back as assistant pitching coach.    Just have to wait and see what happens.

I see the different messaging idea from the article as bs.

[Can_of_corn]

Holt was probably speaking High Elvish.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think this is a good read on what is happening with Holt and the O's pitching coaches. 

My thoughts are that Holt is one of Elias 1st hires and came with him from Houston.   They have been together for 5 years in Baltimore and Holt has shown the ability to build a good pitching staff with some of the pitchers coming right off the waiver wire.  That takes coaching talent.

I think Holt not being the O's pitching coach is Holt's idea.   Maybe its the travel.  Maybe it's the grind.    But he is holding the director of major and minor league pitching title that he had in 2019 and 2020.   I think Holt is trusted and this move is what he needs to do right now.  Maybe for personal reasons.

I suspect that Ramsey is the choice for major league pitching coach.   I think Holmes probably thought he should have been in line for that job and if he was not offered it decided he wanted to look around which the O's granted.

I don't think its certain that Holmes will not be back as assistant pitching coach.    Just have to wait and see what happens.

I see the different messaging idea from the article as bs.

Let’s put it this way…the Os aren’t making a change here unless something is going on.

We saw that results were good…so why would you change?!

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Let’s put it this way…the Os aren’t making a change here unless something is going on.

We saw that results were good…so why would you change?!

As I said,  I think its Holt's idea because he does not want to be committed to traveling with the team all the time.  Could be a personal issue.

Remember Holt left the team for a month in the middle of the season a couple of years ago.  The was never explained.

Edited November 16, 2023 by wildcard

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think this is a good read on what is happening with Holt and the O's pitching coaches. 

My thoughts are that Holt is one of Elias 1st hires and came with him from Houston.   They have been together for 5 years in Baltimore and Holt has shown the ability to build a good pitching staff with some of the pitchers coming right off the waiver wire.  That takes coaching talent.

I think Holt not being the O's pitching coach is Holt's idea.   Maybe its the travel.  Maybe it's the grind.    But he is holding the director of major and minor league pitching title that he had in 2019 and 2020.   I think Holt is trusted and this move is what he needs to do right now.  Maybe for personal reasons.

I suspect that Ramsey is the choice for major league pitching coach.   I think Holmes probably thought he should have been in line for that job and if he was not offered it decided he wanted to look around which the O's granted.

I don't think its certain that Holmes will not be back as assistant pitching coach.    Just have to wait and see what happens.

I see the different messaging idea from the article as bs.

Of course.  Holt walks on water so far as you’re concerned.   

I thought it was interesting when the O’s moved Holmes into the dugout and sent Cossins out to the bullpen.  That suggested to me that Holt wasn’t necessarily the best in-game communicator.  And the O’s have a third coach in the dugout whispering “pitching strategy” to them.  That’s a lot of voices.  

I have no doubt that the Orioles value Holt and that he will continue to play an important role in the organization.  Whether it was their idea or his to move him from his major league pitching coach role, I have no idea.  I just hope the switch works well, and I’m looking forward to seeing who takes the PC role now.  

 

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Of course.  Holt walks on water so far as you’re concerned.   

I thought it was interesting when the O’s moved Holmes into the dugout and sent Cossins out to the bullpen.  That suggested to me that Holt wasn’t necessarily the best in-game communicator.  And the O’s have a third coach in the dugout whispering “pitching strategy” to them.  That’s a lot of voices.  

I have no doubt that the Orioles value Holt and that he will continue to play an important role in the organization.  Whether it was their idea or his to move him from his major league pitching coach role, I have no idea.  I just hope the switch works well, and I’m looking forward to seeing who takes the PC role now.  

 

When Holt walked to the mound to give advice to the pitcher, 9 times out of 10 the pitcher did better.   That does not look like a communication problem to me.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

As I said,  I think its Holt's idea because he does not want to be committed to traveling with the team all the time.  Could be a personal issue.

Remember Holt left the team for a month in the middle of the season a couple of years ago.  The was never explained.

You are really reaching. They demoted him plain and simple. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

When Holt walked to the mound to give advice to the pitcher, 9 times out of 10 the pitcher did better.   That does not look like a communication problem to me.

Did you document that or are you pulling that out of your butt?

[wildcard]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

You are really reaching. They demoted him plain and simple. 

Actually it's not a demotion.  He is moving up.   The pitching coach will report to him the way I read it.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Did you document that or are you pulling that out of your butt?

It's what I saw.  I actually do watch almost all the games.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Actually it's not a demotion.  He is moving up.   The pitching coach will report to him the way I read it.

Isn't this the same role he had a couple of years ago?

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

It's what I saw.  I actually do watch almost all the games.

So yea, you are making it up.  Btw, don’t most pitchers do better after being told what they are doing wrong?

[Moose Milligan]

I just found the whole "struggled to communicate" thing a bit weird.  I don't know how much I believe that, but I don't think Rosenthal reports stuff if he doesn't think the source is credible.  He's pretty good at what he does.

The Orioles had good results last year, better than expected...and as pointed out, they got really good performances from a number of guys that weren't expected to do much.

I guess the way I'm looking at it is that I'm glad that Holt is still with the organization and I'm assuming whoever they hire for the ML pitching coach will be someone that's been thoroughly vetted by Elias, Holt and Hyde and shares philosophies on how things should be done.  

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So yea, you are making it up.  Btw, don’t most pitchers do better after being told what they are doing wrong?

Not really.  Depends of the advise and how much the pitcher trusts the coach.