Rosenthal: Holt had trouble communicating with pitchers

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Osornot said:

 

Man, I am almost 64 years ago and stuff like this still makes me choke on my coffee.  I guess there goes that maturity thing... again.

Well, I’m 66 and still making corny jokes like that one, much to the dismay of my family. 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, orioles119 said:

This is just another line of articles that come out about this year to make the organization look bad.  I expect Keith Law to follow someone to fulfill is anti-Orioles vendetta much like Rosenthal did here.

Par for the course is all I see.

I see no evidence that anyone is anti-Orioles or has a vendetta against the team.

 

 

The Angelos family on the other hand...

Edited November 17, 2023 by Can_of_corn
typo

[Osornot]

22 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't know exactly, but reading the tea leaves here a bit, perhaps they want Holt to use his skills with the younger prospects coming up and feel that now guys are a bit established and may not benefit as much.

 

Reading that also may indicate that Holt may be better at developing than sustaining. I honestly don't know, but the fact he was moved to the director of pitcher rather than fired indicates to me they just think he's more valuable in the other role.

I thought Gibson's comments were interesting as well. He said he thought everyone had his back but maybe not everyone liked him. The only situation that jumps out to me is how Grayson Rodriguez failed so miserably during his first stint with the Orioles, and seemed to get fixed in AAA under Ramsey. 

Overall though with pitchers like McDermott, Povich, DeLeon, and Baumeister having high ceiling arms, along with the fact the Orioles drafted more arms in the top ten rounds, maybe they just want him to focused on development rather than sustaining the arms that have arrived?

Gibson's comments hold more weight than anything else.  When I think of who would use the most diplomacy outside of the locker room he would be at or near the top.

To me, this is a great turn of events and is called leadership.  The shallow mindset of staying the course, promoting / demoting, or firing is ridiculous.  They believe Holt has a talent that is important to the team's goals he was just in the wrong place (seat?) which was not conducive for success - it may be as easy as it ran out in the third year.  So, they moved him where he had a better chance to help and succeed.  It is as simple as the right seat, the wrong person in that seat (position).  One may conclude that this means leadership did communicate plus he may have already known that his greatest value is in a different position.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Osornot
add

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Osornot said:

Plus, with all my apologies to those much younger than I, it is not easy "communicating" with millennials and after.  There is a lot of entitlement there and add a "star" athlete?  Rosenthal looking for clicks

Without an apology to those even older than I, as a member of "Generation X" I have found more of a sense of entitlement in those older than myself than those younger than myself.

 

[btdart20]

56 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Without an apology to those even older than I, as a member of "Generation X" I have found more of a sense of entitlement in those older than myself than those younger than myself.

 

As a member of Gen X as well, it's not a trait we set a high bar for either.  We all think we know best and deserve better.  Very few of us fall on the sword or "do unto others" or "walk a mile in their shoes" or whatever other ideal of otherness/sacrifice.  Younger, older, or peers.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, orioles119 said:

This is just another line of articles that come out about this year to make the organization look bad.  I expect Keith Law to follow someone to fulfill is anti-Orioles vendetta much like Rosenthal did here.

Par for the course is all I see.

I heard Law on 105.7 last week and man, he really does like to poo-poo the organization anytime he can. I don't think he necessarily changes his scouting reports on players because of it, but he clearly does not like Elias and company. 

[oriolediehard]

What I don't understand is why there is any problem with Holt and Holmes, since they were part of 101 win team??

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Osornot said:

Regarding Millenials and after I meant younger...  saying that, being a late-stage boomer I would say entitlement falls way behind narcissism.  Love the music, not a big fan of pseudo-intellectualism and hypocrisy. 

Actually, I would agree that Gen X may be much better... except for some - the ones that are a bit too snarky for the sake of being snarky, but I digress... 

I wasn't implying that X was better, just providing a frame of reference.

I don't think individuals should be categorized by generational tags.

For instance from all I've heard Doyle Alexander was as entitled as they come.

[Billy F-Face3]

The news that Holmes is no longer going to be with the team is disappointing and concerning to me. Overall, the results from 2022 and 2023 were excellent with Holt + Holmes in the dugout and Tim in the Bullpen. 2022 provided success for guys that were waiver claims. So did parts of 2023. And the Development of Bradish + Rodriguez has been great. Credit to Ramsey for that as well.

Any time you make a change after you've had good results, it's a big gamble. TBH, I thought one of the hitting coaches would've been more at risk for change than one of the pitching coaches.

I could see Ramsey being the pitching coach but then who will fill his important role at AAA Norfolk to develop the upcoming pitching talent?

[Aristotelian]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:46 AM, wildcard said:

Holt hired Justin Ramsey.  And he has mentored and promoted him from Delmarva to Bowie to Norfolk.  Its time for Ramsey to move to the majors.    Ramsey already has a trusted relationship with several of the key pitchers on the O's staff.  

I will say again I think the Holt  having trouble communicating with the pitchers is a bunch of bunk.  This move has been planned by Holt for years.

Here is an article that explains a lot of it.

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/orioles-mlb/justin-ramsey-coach-orioles-pitcher-WK3O2LRDJZGALBBYNL6NASVY2U/

Nice find. If he has a close relationship with Grayson that is a great reason for a promotion. 

[Frobby]

19 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think individuals should be categorized by generational tags.

This.   There are good, bad, motivated, lazy, generous, greedy etc. people in every generation.  Also in all parts of the country, from all political parties, and in every religion and race.  

I will say this: professional athletes generally are highly motivated to be successful in their profession.   It’s a highly competitive field and motivation is a differentiator.  
 

[BRobinsonfan]

In any discussion about pitching coaches, I can't help but remember Jim Bouton's description of the pre-game “scouting” meetings to go over the opposing team's line-up when he was with the Seattle Pilots. Apparently, pitcher Gary Bell was famous for advising “smoke 'em inside” for just about every hitter, and manager Joe Schultz would distill everything down to “Give him some low smoke and we'll go pound some Budweiser.” I've read that after “Ball Four” came out Bouton would frequently sign “smoke 'em inside” underneath his signature.

[sportsfan8703]

Holt is a big dude. The pitchers were probably terrified when he came out there when they were messing up. 100% Fugi was.