Lazardo is my choice

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Sure, if he posts another good season he might get a multi-year deal. Anything's possible, but I still can't imagine him being valued significantly more than someone like Renfroe next offseason.  

 

I have to admit, Renfroe is a pretty good comp for Santander.  Like Hernandez, he kind of messed up his walk year, posting a .713 OPS/91 OPS+.   He’s also two years older than Santander will be next offseason, which is pretty important to teams considering a multi-year deal.   So, I do think he’ll be valued significantly more highly than Renfroe unless he has a very poor 2024.   

[Sports Guy]

Wouldn’t be a total shock but it would be pretty surprising if Santander got a 3 year deal.  He would need to show better defense to get that I think.

[Safelykept]

51 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

You  don’t think Santander will get a 3 year deal after this season? I’ll take that action. 

Latino players are very popular in Miami. Because of their high percentage of Latino residents.

Quit being a smart ass. You don’t need to ask stupid condescending questions to make a point. 
 

Also, Limited posting member, quit being cheap and spend the $30 bucks it cost to be a member.

Moving forward I won’t even take you seriously until you do that. 

Latino Players are popular in Miami? you might want to walk that back because no MLb Players are popular in Miami> Its not a baseball town anymore. Since 2013 ( the year after their new stadium opened they have averaged 1.3 million fans a year. Nobody cares, I know this because I live here Ive lived here my entire life ,that how i found the Os. They   Spring trained at the Old Miami Stadium from 1958 to 1991, were on the radio every night in the 70s and 80s on 610 WIOD. Year they Won the 1983 World Series there was a 35 game package on channel 33 (free). I tell the few locals i come across that are Marlin fans its entirely plausible that there were more Orioles fans in this town than there are Marlin fans today

[Safelykept]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

What makes you so sure about that?  Guys like Santander get 3-4 year contracts pretty regularly.  Friggin’ Nick Castellanos is on a 5/$100 mm deal.  

Not in Miami.

[Safelykept]

4 hours ago, ScGO's said:

With Santander having one year left, I think he has more value to this team's line up for next season as most of our bats are still young, and he's the best and most consistent of our veteran hitters. He has a little more versatility with RF, DH, 1B now on his resume; he's a switch hitter. He just fits in this 2024 line up.

If he has another 3+ WAR season, I believe Santander could get a qualifying offer. At that point we take the draft pick or he resigns for 1 year, which I am okay with for a 2025 roster.

I think the most expendable of our veterans are Hays and Mountcastle. They are the most easily replaced in the line up. Yet they won't bring back a ton in a trade; however, they would be good complimentary pieces in a trade for a pitcher.

Hays, Mountcastle, Westburg, McDermott, Ortiz  for Luzardo and a young projectable pitching prospect in the lower minors.

I would Do that all day Long> Would the Marlins? Why would they?

[Frobby]

53 minutes ago, Safelykept said:

Not in Miami.

Probably not, but the statement I responded to wasn’t limited to Miami.  

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Safelykept said:

Latino Players are popular in Miami? you might want to walk that back because no MLb Players are popular in Miami> Its not a baseball town anymore. Since 2013 ( the year after their new stadium opened they have averaged 1.3 million fans a year. Nobody cares, I know this because I live here Ive lived here my entire life ,that how i found the Os. They   Spring trained at the Old Miami Stadium from 1958 to 1991, were on the radio every night in the 70s and 80s on 610 WIOD. Year they Won the 1983 World Series there was a 35 game package on channel 33 (free). I tell the few locals i come across that are Marlin fans its entirely plausible that there were more Orioles fans in this town than there are Marlin fans today

I'm looking forward to Roll Tide's well thought out rebuttal in which he argues that Anthony Santander is the second coming of Roberto Clemente, uses the word "ese" in the post, and explains that he's more in touch with the Latino community than you are because he once dated a girl in high school who could roll for R's. 

[wildbillhiccup]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I have to admit, Renfroe is a pretty good comp for Santander.  Like Hernandez, he kind of messed up his walk year, posting a .713 OPS/91 OPS+.   He’s also two years older than Santander will be next offseason, which is pretty important to teams considering a multi-year deal.   So, I do think he’ll be valued significantly more highly than Renfroe unless he has a very poor 2024.   

Yes he might have a bit more value at this very moment, but I'm not sure there's a significant difference between the two players. Both have posted pretty similar numbers over the last three seasons. And before Santander was even on the MLB map, Renfroe posted 2.4 and 2.6 WAR seasons in 2018 and 2019. Yes Renfroe was coming off a down season, but he also has a longer track record of offensive production. 

If Santander can squeeze out another year that's at least as productive as his 2022 season then maybe someone will give him a two year deal with a third year club option. I think the dollar value (per year) will probably fall somewhere between what he's making now and Teoscar's annual salary. The difference between Santander and Tesocar is the latter actually has a few solid OBP (.340 / .346) and Batting Avg (..289 / .296) seasons in his past and I imagine some optimism from the Dodgers that he could get back to those levels factored into the salary that the offered him. 

Again, the main point I was making is that it seems very unlikely that a team would trade for a 29 year old glorified DH with poor OBP skills who really only excels in two offensive categories with the intention of signing him to a long term deal before he becomes a free agent. Is it impossible? Of course not, but the odds seem very low and it seems silly and lazy for someone to use it as the crux of their argument for a why a team should trade for him. 

[wildbillhiccup]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

He’s just trolling Frobby. He’s done it lately on pretty much every post I make. 

I'm not trolling anyone. Frobby and I have had a completely civil back and forth on this topic where we both have shared actual data and made logical arguments for our points of view. Whereas you just continue to spam nearly every topic on the Orioles Hangout Message Board with lazy and repetitive posts and analysis and then act like a small child when anyone calls you out on your bullsh*t by saying "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree". 

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

He’s just trolling Frobby. He’s done it lately on pretty much every post I make. 

Just like the rep poster 

Edited January 21 by Roll Tide

[interloper]

Seems like this message board is getting a little cabin fever lately. 

[Roll Tide]

19 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I'm not trolling anyone. Frobby and I have had a completely civil back and forth on this topic where we both have shared actual data and made logical arguments for our points of view. Whereas you just continue to spam nearly every topic on the Orioles Hangout Message Board with lazy and repetitive posts and analysis and then act like a small child when anyone calls you out on your bullsh*t by saying "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree". 

No that’s incorrect …. Frobby’s response on Santander would have been followed by another insult if I had responded first. The only reason you shut up was someone else said you were wrong. 
 

I don’t care what you think about me or my participation here. Go back to your room in mommy’s basement. 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Safelykept said:

Not in Miami.

Maybe they wouldn’t but nobody said the Marlins would be his only option. 

[wildbillhiccup]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

No that’s incorrect …. Frobby’s response on Santander would have been followed by another insult if I had responded first. The only reason you shut up was someone else said you were wrong. 
 

I don’t care what you think about me or my participation here. Go back to your room in mommy’s basement. 

Here's the thing. People can have different opinions and a civil discourse when they use reasonable facts to back up their arguments. I made my points, Frobby made his points and no one is right or wrong. It's just a simple, civil discussion between two grown men.

The difference is your posts rarely include reasonable facts and your incapable of acknowledging when someone makes a reasonable point which goes against the typically outlandish comment that you've made. That's when the agree to disagree comment comes into play. When you can't actually back up what you've said or claimed with anything of substance.

And don't worry, the irony of you having to resort to personally insulting me and downvoting my comments after I implied that you were acting like a small child is not lost on me.

[Roll Tide]

20 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Here's the thing. People can have different opinions and a civil discourse when they use reasonable facts to back up their arguments. I made my points, Frobby made his points and no one is right or wrong. It's just a simple, civil discussion between two grown men.

The difference is your posts rarely include reasonable facts and your incapable of acknowledging when someone makes a reasonable point which goes against the typically outlandish comment that you've made. That's when the agree to disagree comment comes into play. When you can't actually back up what you've said or claimed with anything of substance.

And don't worry, the irony of you having to resort to personally insulting me and downvoting my comments after I implied that you were acting like a small child is not lost on me.

On the contrary …. I don’t need to be talked down to by you or anybody else here. That seems to be your agenda here for a few weeks now. I don’t need to look up stats/contract comparisons to know that 30+ Homeruns and 95+ ish RBIs don’t grow on trees. Especially guys that can do it from either side of the plate.  In the old days the Orioles would probably already extended him. Is he a stud? Of course not …. He’s a little too streaky on offense and he’d be much more exciting if he could bump his average and OBP up 25-30 points.

His defense is mediocre because he catches what he gets to and has a strong arm. Suprisingly his DWAR is usually never more than -.6. 2022 he was -1.3 and by far his worst. But, it’s clearly the outlier. 
 

***** Also, when I say that I agree to disagree it’s done to walk away from the debate rather than resorting to insults, slights, and similar behavior. Mostly because the stuff you are doing is against board rules. I’d never get on here and call another poster lazy, dumb, etc. if you prefer we can stop discussing stuff and just ignore one another. Thanks in advance for your consideration *****

 

 

Edited January 21 by Roll Tide