Jackson Holliday 2024

[terpoh]

17 minutes ago, banks703 said:

No

So when he has a 2 OAA, and 2 Fielding Run value on statcast what does that mean? I am asking because I don’t know. What should those numbers be to be “good”

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, terpoh said:

So when he has a 2 OAA, and 2 Fielding Run value on statcast what does that mean? I am asking because I don’t know. What should those numbers be to be “good”

They were good but as with any defensive stat, that small of a sample size isn’t really that valuable.

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I assume you are referring to me?  I have always said JH will be a very good player.  Just probably not superstar status as many believe.  Nothing I have seen changes that for me.  Really good player.  Should get better.  Not HoF level. 

Hope I am wrong.  But I still would trade him for a controllable elite young starter no questions asked. 

And for those that say well than why didn't teams who had  one of those pitchers make an offer for him this past trade deadline?  Maybe because they see the same things I and some others do.  He isn't worth a controllable elite young starter.  And as the 1-1 pick in the draft?  That says something.  I did hear him and some other players added in for a pitcher of that caliber.  Which also says a lot. 

It's very hard to make it to the HOF, Holliday has the large advantage of getting to the majors very young.  Someone like Adley has to be elite until they are 34, which is difficult, especially for a catcher.  I think Holliday's value is going to be in getting on base and scoring runs.  He scored almost a run a game in the minors, which is an insane rate.  Now if Adley can just remember how to draw a walk again, the O's might have some decent OBP skills. 

I'm not in favor of trading Holliday, especially now that he has shown that he is a MLB hitter.  It's like Westburg pre and post Rookie year (since his year seems over).  I think just about 100% of us would have traded Westburg for a true ace before this year, and now very few of us would or would say what else is coming back.  Holliday, Mayo, Gunnar could be a huge run scoring engine.  Maybe bring back Santander 4th and bat Westburg 5th. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Gunnar has messed up a lot of routine plays lately too. In fact every single player in ML history has messed up lots of routine plays throughout their careers.

Gunnar’s last week of July was as bad as it gets, no question. But when you look at it in the context of his full season and the many above average plays he makes, it’s a hiccup.  We haven’t seen enough of Holliday to know if it’s a hiccup or a problem.   I don’t like some of his fundamentals, though.  In particular I hate the way he catches pop ups below shoulder level.  

[terpoh]

36 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They were good but as with any defensive stat, that small of a sample size isn’t really that valuable.

Ok- then how is it possible to say “no” they don’t look good (I know it wasn’t you), wouldn’t that same small sample size not being valuable be valid if they were low there as well? @banks703

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, terpoh said:

Ok- then how is it possible to say “no” they don’t look good (I know it wasn’t you), wouldn’t that same small sample size not being valuable be valid if they were low there as well? @banks703

To be fair to Banks, his evaluation is based on watching his MiL games the last few years. 

[terpoh]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

To be fair to Banks, his evaluation is based on watching his MiL games the last few years. 

Right, and that’s great. I was trying to understand the analytics specifically because I don’t know how to interpret them well. I asked if Hollidays analytics numbers  were favorable because I thought I had read here that they were. His response was “no”

[OriolesMagic83]

Might as well give Holliday the rest of the year at 2B.  What are we going to do, have 8 DHs?

[RZNJ]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/3049616

"When he got up here, it was fastball shape causing swing and miss," Orioles hitting strategist Cody Asche told theScore. "We kind of broke that down for him. We told him, 'You're not going to be a fastball-miss guy, but there are some things in your swing that we see that'll help you have success when you get back to the big leagues and you have to cover 98 (mph).'"

They showed Holliday how his leg kick was too big, and how upright he'd become in his stance.

"It was just a lot of time to get the swing off," Asche said. "If you're having this big, long process, you almost have to pick your leg up before (the pitcher) makes a move. Up here, time gets really condensed. We're fighting for milliseconds of time and space."

 

"I felt like I got back to what I was doing (before)," Holliday said. "Covering heaters up, having good direction."

[Tony-OH]

On 8/8/2024 at 3:24 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

I really like Ryan Ripken. His instagram is really good. He does short breakdowns of all things O’s. 

https://www.instagram.com/ryanripken?igsh=NnQzcnE3c3g0MG51

https://m.youtube.com/@RYANRIPKENMEDIA

He’s on 105.7 a lot too.  He’s really improved over the last few years since he started doing this full time it seems.  Good stuff.

Back to Holliday, I’m worried about my Cowser ROY bet.  Holliday is +7500 currently for those who care. 

 

Ryan has been doing a good job for sure. He's a smart baseball guy for obvious reasons and while he never made it out of the minors, that experience as a pro ball player gives him a unique perspective on things.

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/3049616

"When he got up here, it was fastball shape causing swing and miss," Orioles hitting strategist Cody Asche told theScore. "We kind of broke that down for him. We told him, 'You're not going to be a fastball-miss guy, but there are some things in your swing that we see that'll help you have success when you get back to the big leagues and you have to cover 98 (mph).'"

They showed Holliday how his leg kick was too big, and how upright he'd become in his stance.

"It was just a lot of time to get the swing off," Asche said. "If you're having this big, long process, you almost have to pick your leg up before (the pitcher) makes a move. Up here, time gets really condensed. We're fighting for milliseconds of time and space."

 

"I felt like I got back to what I was doing (before)," Holliday said. "Covering heaters up, having good direction."

Wait, I was seeing posters scoff at the idea that he needed to adjust his leg kick. Of course they are same ones running victory circles after a small sample size after laughing at the people who made conclusions based on Holliday's first small sample.

At the end of the day, the vast majority of posters here thought Holliday was going to be a very good player at some point. 

Am I glad to still have him? Sure, especially after Westburg went down so quickly after he was brought back up. Will Holliday give the Orioles a better chance to win a World Series that Skubel over the next two and half years? Maybe? But a young TOR is what this team needed with Bradish down and Burnes questionable after this season.

I'll admit though, Eflin has done everything we wouldn't have wanted Skuble to do so far and was had without giving up a top 6 prospect so that was a great job by Elias.

You also have to wonder would have the Orioles traded for Eflin if Skubel was acquired?

It's a fair statement to say that you'd rather have six years of Holliday instead of two and half of Skubel. But I still believe a TOR is worth more than any one position player. 

Of course it sounded like Skubel wasn't available reasonably or maybe at all if some of the reports were accurate, so really this is all hypothetical. 

Holliday is on a bit of a heater right now and as was pointed out is hitting ball consistently hard. He certainly appears to be the everyday 2B here for a long time and I don't think anyone is too upset over that.  

 

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Wait, I was seeing posters scoff at the idea that he needed to adjust his leg kick. Of course they are same ones running victory circles after a small sample size after laughing at the people who made conclusions based on Holliday's first small sample.

At the end of the day, the vast majority of posters here thought Holliday was going to be a very good player at some point. 

Am I glad to still have him? Sure, especially after Westburg went down so quickly after he was brought back up. Will Holliday give the Orioles a better chance to win a World Series that Skubel over the next two and half years? Maybe? But a young TOR is what this team needed with Bradish down and Burnes questionable after this season.

I'll admit though, Eflin has done everything we wouldn't have wanted Skuble to do so far and was had without giving up a top 6 prospect so that was a great job by Elias.

You also have to wonder would have the Orioles traded for Eflin if Skubel was acquired?

It's a fair statement to say that you'd rather have six years of Holliday instead of two and half of Skubel. But I still believe a TOR is worth more than any one position player. 

Of course it sounded like Skubel wasn't available reasonably or maybe at all if some of the reports were accurate, so really this is all hypothetical. 

Holliday is on a bit of a heater right now and as was pointed out is hitting ball consistently hard. He certainly appears to be the everyday 2B here for a long time and I don't think anyone is too upset over that.  

 

My main reason for posting the article was informational and the second reason was Sports Guy poking fun at the “internet batting coaches” who said the leg kick was a problem.   Apparently, it was.   My main issue with Holliday was always more so with his pulling off the ball, aka bailing out.  Ryan Ripken showed the difference of then and now using video but you also see the quote from Holliday in this article about “direction”.

I just thought it was interesting.   

Edited August 10 by RZNJ

[banks703]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

My main reason for posting the article was informational and the second reason was Sports Guy poking fun at the “internet batting coaches” who said the leg kick was a problem.   Apparently, it was.   My main issue with Holliday was always more so with his pulling off the ball, aka bailing out.  Ryan Ripken showed the difference of then and now using video but you also see the quote from Holliday in this article about “direction”.

I just thought it was interesting.   

The leg kick hasn't bothered me as much as some others but if their hitting strategist/coach (whatever the hell they are) identified it as an issue then it obviously was an issue for him. The pulling off of the ball is what I haven't liked about his mechanics. He had some ABs last night where his hips were leaking open again. I don't know if it's being homer-happy or if he's just trying to hit the ball hard but when his front side opens up too quickly, he seems to lose some ability to control the bat through the zone (adjust mid-swing) which is what I have always felt is what really separated him as a hitting prospect. When his hands have to catch up to his bottom half, he loses some of his truly elite ability to cover pitches. Guys that can adjust to stuff that they don't immediately identify and still make hard contact the way that the he had during his ascension through the minors are rare. I'm talking Larry Walker, Ichiro, Tony Gwynn, Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols rare. As a 20-year old kid I'd put his bat-to-ball skills against anyone in baseball but that pulling off of the ball is what seems to get him into trouble. If they say it was the leg-kick, I'm glad (not only) that they identified but that he and his camp were receptive to the coaching provided to him. 

[banks703]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Holliday is on a bit of a heater right now and as was pointed out is hitting ball consistently hard. He certainly appears to be the everyday 2B here for a long time and I don't think anyone is too upset over that.  

We've discussed his fielding ad nauseum but even as critical as I've been of it, I'm still running him out to 2B for the remainder of the year. He's not going to get better coaching than what he has with the big club and right now his on-base ability is needed far more than a better defender, less offense 2B would provide. If he's going to improve defensively, it's going to happen at the Major League level and the only way for him to do that is to keep going out there and playing the position. I'm sure that I will cuss and rage if a misplay of his costs them a run in a close game but if he's getting on-base and scoring runs, I'm sure that I'll be able to deal with it. 

[Frobby]

I’ve never claimed to know the first thing about swing mechanics.  I’m just happy the kid has made some adjustments and is hitting better.