GM Mistakes Elias/Cashman

[HowAboutThat]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/09/yankees-rumors-jasson-dominguez-alex-verdugo-left-field.html
 

this is a fascinating article about the Yankees refusal to call up extremely promising prospect Jasson Dominguez to replace extremely disappointing veteran Alex Verdugo.

On one hand, Cashman was willing to go public with management disagreement about whether to call up Dominguez and is personally(along with Aaron Boone) taking responsibility for not doing so, so kudos for that.

On the other hand, he didn’t really give any reason for not making the change, so we’re left to just assume that it is stubbornness or ego.

Over in Baltimore, Elias has, arguably, made similar mistakes.

I share because I think this illustrates that, individual skills and talents aside, every GM suffers from a certain arrogance that renders them unable to admit a mistake or to address it in a timely or effective manner.

after several years of remaking, the organization, for which Elias deserves much praise, he’s now in a different phase, and that phase is addressing problems and maintaining the success of the last couple of years. And that’s much more difficult.

We can only hope that he makes adjustments as necessary.

[7Mo]

That seems to require that Dominguez would be the better contributor. 

[Ven6]

Is it really more difficult? Much more? 
 

To this O’s fan, the 1970s were a lot “easier” than the 2000s. 

[Sanfran327]

Some might call it arrogance, others might call it resolve. I think it's as simple as identifying a problem/situation, analyzing it to the best of your ability and that of the resources at your disposal, reaching a conclusion, and sticking to that decision based on the analysis that brought you to that decision. Beyond that, Elias will learn when and how to adjust as he gains experience in the #1 chair. 

Honestly, I don't even have any gripes with him at the moment. We all wanted Holliday up, then he stunk. Then we all wanted Mayo up, then he stunk. So who are we complaining about now? I can't even keep up.

Not to derail, but it's the same unfair criticism that Hyde is facing on this board. Manager and GM sure have become thankless responsibilities around here. And I know how you all talk about Harbaugh on the football board, too. I'm not apologist for any of them, but I do admire the fact that they've been able to build a championship-caliber club and maintain it through all of the injury adversity we've faced. This board is quick to point out mistakes, but is terrible at giving credit where credit is due, and having the most wins in the American League as we sit here on September 6 deserves a bunch of credit. 

Edited September 6 by Sanfran327

[Frobby]

There's never been a GM or a manager who was perfect.   There's never been one whose every decision I agreed with (which is different from being perfect).   I don't expect that from them.   They're human beings.   What you do hope is that they have good processes and checks and balances within the organization to minimize mistakes, and to learn from the mistakes they make and not repeat them.   I feel pretty comfortable that the O's management team has good processes.   

That said, the nature of baseball is that well-reasoned decisions turn out wrong a decent percentage of the time.  A player's performance deviates from what you expected.   Was the evaluation of the player bad?   Is it just a random hot or cold spell that will self-correct over time?   How long do you wait before changing course?   In my experience, GMs and managers are usually far slower to make changes than most fans would like.   Is that because they are stubborn and can't admit their mistakes, or is it because they are wiser than the fans and know that it takes a bigger sample to evaluate the player's performance?   

[Moose Milligan]

Trying to paint Elias as someone with a lot of "arrogance" is one of the funnier and more ridiculous attempts at creating a narrative on here.  

A good chunk of the time when someone is calling someone else arrogant, they're really projecting.

[mcneck]

Kinda unrelated but apparently Verdugo is allergic to his own tattoos and also his batting gloves

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/yankees-alex-verdugo-allergic-his-own-tattoos-report

[forphase1]

It's difficult.   It's a real strength to stick to what you believe is a right decision even when everything is pointing the wrong way.   And it's a real strength to change your set in stone mind when data shows you might have been wrong.   Problem is knowing when to use which strength.  hindsight is always 20/20, and a game of failure,  like baseball,  it's going to be hard to usually be right,  much less be right a majority of the time.   Fans,  myself definitely included,  can sway in the wind,  each game can really alter our thoughts and perception.  I want my GM to be more stable that the average fan,  myself included.   But at the same time,  there comes a point where even an idiot like me can see a change is needed,  and if I can see it, surely Elias/Hyde should see it too.  But it's all part of the chore/duty placed on leadership/management.  As the saying goes,  heavy is the head that wears the crown.  They get the glory when their decisions work out, and they get the blame when it doesn't.   That comes with the job. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, mcneck said:

Kinda unrelated but apparently Verdugo is allergic to his own tattoos and also his batting gloves

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/yankees-alex-verdugo-allergic-his-own-tattoos-report

Not to mention routine Cedric Mullins fly balls.  

[Moose Milligan]

28 minutes ago, mcneck said:

Kinda unrelated but apparently Verdugo is allergic to his own tattoos and also his batting gloves

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/yankees-alex-verdugo-allergic-his-own-tattoos-report

What a dunce. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

What a dunce. 

That's why you go hard like Moisés Alou.

[HowAboutThat]

4 hours ago, 7Mo said:

That seems to require that Dominguez would be the better contributor. 

 

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

There's never been a GM or a manager who was perfect.   There's never been one whose every decision I agreed with (which is different from being perfect).   I don't expect that from them.   They're human beings.   What you do hope is that they have good processes and checks and balances within the organization to minimize mistakes, and to learn from the mistakes they make and not repeat them.   I feel pretty comfortable that the O's management team has good processes.   

That said, the nature of baseball is that well-reasoned decisions turn out wrong a decent percentage of the time.  A player's performance deviates from what you expected.   Was the evaluation of the player bad?   Is it just a random hot or cold spell that will self-correct over time?   How long do you wait before changing course?   In my experience, GMs and managers are usually far slower to make changes than most fans would like.   Is that because they are stubborn and can't admit their mistakes, or is it because they are wiser than the fans and know that it takes a bigger sample to evaluate the player's performance?   

I don’t disagree with that at all, and I say quite frequently that sometimes a good decision doesn’t work, sometimes a bad decision does work, but that doesn’t change whether they were good or bad decisions.

Also, there’s nothing wrong with making a mistake, admitting the mistake and changing your process to avoid future mistakes. That’s just being human.

The problem is when you make a mistake and then you double down on the mistake because you refuse to admit the mistake, or you try and blame the mistake on other people or circumstances beyond your control or this or that.

That appears to be what Cashman is doing, and the original post suggested that that kind of attitude is not uncommon among the super achievers who ascend to the position of general manager, so I’m just hoping that Elias will be willing to make adjustments now that the Orioles are in a different phase and are expected to be regular contenders going forward.

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Trying to paint Elias as someone with a lot of "arrogance" is one of the funnier and more ridiculous attempts at creating a narrative on here.  

A good chunk of the time when someone is calling someone else arrogant, they're really projecting.

Well, as I said, it remains to be seen whether Elias will change his process, but I think it’s pretty clear that even if that process worked at one time, the team has evolved to the point where another process is necessary.

And if Elias refuses to change despite indications that change is necessary, what would you call that? Arrogance, stubbornness, something else?

[yark14]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

There's never been a GM or a manager who was perfect.   

You haven't seen me play OOTP baseball.