Snell and Fried

[Pickles]

39 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think that's accurate.

I think you are presenting something as fact that is actually simply your personal belief.  Pulling a Wildcard.

Astros didn't fall apart when he left.

 

 

 

I can't prove a hypothetical but I just gave two very strong parallel cases as anecdotal evidence.  Unless I do something that is literally impossible you'll smirk and and smugly act as if you've proven something.

Everybody here knows if Elias has somehow on the open market he'd be highly sought after by any team with an opening, and many teams would make an opening for him if they could get him.  

We know this as surely as we know that Burnes is going to be highly sought after this off-season and will receive a contract at the upper end of the pitching market.  And even if it is merely a hypothetical, we still all know it.

The Astros not falling apart is hardly a condemnation of Elias' work there.  In fact, quite the opposite.

[Pickles]

31 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Because he built the organization doesn’t mean he’s capable of finishing the job. I agree He’s fixed the front office that was broken all the way back to 1983. But, I don’t think he’s particularly good at trading. He’s had the Burnes and Eflin trades but the rest of his trading since we’ve been competitive has been pretty bad. So we allegedly have money to spend according to statements by Rubbenstein. So we can see what happens this season. I think it’s foolish to believe he deserves a blank check and a free pass. So to each his own ….

So to be clear, we're not reducing success to simply winning the world series, but until we win a world series the Orioles arren't successful?

Just want to be clear here.

Or is success just spending money?

The bad trades like the trades for Burnes, Eflin, Bradish, Cano?

What bad trade?  The complete overreaction to one trade, the Rodgers trade?

Who do you want to replace Elias with?  Surely you've this thought this out?

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I can't prove a hypothetical but I just gave two very strong parallel cases as anecdotal evidence.  Unless I do something that is literally impossible you'll smirk and and smugly act as if you've proven something.

Everybody here knows if Elias has somehow on the open market he'd be highly sought after by any team with an opening, and many teams would make an opening for him if they could get him.  

We know this as surely as we know that Burnes is going to be highly sought after this off-season and will receive a contract at the upper end of the pitching market.  And even if it is merely a hypothetical, we still all know it.

The Astros not falling apart is hardly a condemnation of Elias' work there.  In fact, quite the opposite.

But you didn't state it as a hypothesis, you stated it as a fact.

And for the record I'm sure Elias could get a job in a heartbeat.

I'm sure he could get a lateral move job inside of a season.  (I'm not convinced someone would get fired just because Elias hit the market).

I don't think he'd suddenly be the highest paid executive in the league.

 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But you didn't state it as a hypothesis, you stated it as a fact.

And for the record I'm sure Elias could get a job in a heartbeat.

I'm sure he could get a lateral move job inside of a season.  (I'm not convinced someone would get fired just because Elias hit the market).

I don't think he'd suddenly be the highest paid executive in the league.

 

It is a fact.

He'd be highly sought after and would be among the highest paid executives in the leage.

Fact.

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, Pickles said:

So to be clear, we're not reducing success to simply winning the world series, but until we win a world series the Orioles arren't successful?

Just want to be clear here.

Or is success just spending money?

The bad trades like the trades for Burnes, Eflin, Bradish, Cano?

What bad trade?  The complete overreaction to one trade, the Rodgers trade?

Who do you want to replace Elias with?  Surely you've this thought this out?

Stop putting words in my mouth! 
 

1) The goal needs to be the World Series

2) We need to spend wisely …but we need to spend

3) Oh Stop ….i gave him credit for Eflin and Burnes. The others were during the rebuild and selling trades. Which I said in my response to you, 

4) It’s not one trade …. He’s tried to get help2 deadlines now. Beyond Eflin at two deadlines he’s done little to help the team reach the ultimate goal. 
 

His moves in 2023 were Jack Flaherty who was basically worthless and Fuji who was so inconsistent that he’s not even pitching in the majors. Did I forget anyone?

He did little to help an offense that was struggling mightily in 2024. He gave a lot away this deadline. They got Eflin but most everything else was mediocre or worse. The Rogers deal was just horrible. And why was he shopping in the bargain bin pile. Rogers was a 4.5 ERA starter before the trade which really wasn’t an upgrade and he crapped the bed after he got here. 
 

I’m undecided over who I’d go after to replace Elias when the times comes.

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Stop putting words in my mouth! 
 

1) The goal needs to be the World Series

2) We need to spend wisely …but we need to spend

3) Oh Stop ….i gave him credit for Eflin and Burnes. The others were during the rebuild and selling trades. Which I said in my response to you, 

4) It’s not one trade …. He’s tried to get help2 deadlines now. Beyond Eflin at two deadlines he’s done little to help the team reach the ultimate goal. 
 

His moves in 2023 were Jack Flaherty who was basically worthless and Fuji who was so inconsistent that he’s not even pitching in the majors. Did I forget anyone?

He did little to help an offense that was struggling mightily in 2024. He gave a lot away this deadline. They got Eflin but most everything else was mediocre or worse. The Rogers deal was just horrible. And why was he shopping in the bargain bin pile. Rogers was a 4.5 ERA starter before the trade which really wasn’t an upgrade and he crapped the bed after he got here. 
 

I’m undecided over who I’d go after to replace Elias when the times comes.

Nobody put words in your mouth.  I asked you questions.  That you can't answer them should suggest to you how thought out our positions are.

1) The goal is the World Series.  What makes you think it isn't?

2)  That's the most generic statement possible that is impossible to analyze,

3) So Elfin, Burnes, Bradish, Cano, etc.  don't count because you don't want them to count.  But other than that, he's got a bad track record of trading..... .like what trade?  Are we all supposed to go insane and only evaluate one trade- the Rodgers trade- in the most hyperbolic terms necessary to justify our hyperbole?

4) So we judge him for hypothetical trades that we didn't make and can't even be analyzed?  LOL.

Flaherty was a worthless trade?  This is the same Flaherty that started Game 1 of the World Series this year, right?

Oh, so you just want to cry about Rodgers ad nauseum?  Cry ahead.

So you want to fire the most successful GM we've had since Pat Gillick but you haven't even thought about who'd you replace him with?  And wouldn't even bothered until he was fired?  You understand how stupid that is, right?

Edited 8 hours ago by Pickles

[kidrock]

On 10/25/2024 at 2:17 PM, Can_of_corn said:

I will say that the second half swoon has really damped down the Elias is infallible narrative.

I don't see anyone posting about how they need to lock him up to an unprecedented contract for an executive.

I really respect the work Elias has done.  I do want to see him figure out how to change the teams approach at the plate now that it seems the league has caught on.  I would also like them to figure out why some of their top prospects look entirely overmatched.

[Roll Tide]

5 hours ago, Pickles said:

Nobody put words in your mouth.  I asked you questions.  That you can't answer them should suggest to you how thought out our positions are.

1) The goal is the World Series.  What makes you think it isn't?

2)  That's the most generic statement possible that is impossible to analyze,

3) So Elfin, Burnes, Bradish, Cano, etc.  don't count because you don't want them to count.  But other than that, he's got a bad track record of trading..... .like what trade?  Are we all supposed to go insane and only evaluate one trade- the Rodgers trade- in the most hyperbolic terms necessary to justify our hyperbole?

4) So we judge him for hypothetical trades that we didn't make and can't even be analyzed?  LOL.

Flaherty was a worthless trade?  This is the same Flaherty that started Game 1 of the World Series this year, right?

Oh, so you just want to cry about Rodgers ad nauseum?  Cry ahead.

So you want to fire the most successful GM we've had since Pat Gillick but you haven't even thought about who'd you replace him with?  And wouldn't even bothered until he was fired?  You understand how stupid that is, right?

1) not saying it’s not …. But the leash is only so long

 

2) It will be easy to determine if Elias is going to really participate in free agency or just going to go after guys in the bargain bin

 

3) Your putting words in my mouth again! I said the deals before the window opened arent the same as trying to add players to a contender. Show me where I said Burnes and Eflin don’t count. And it’s not one trade …everything else he did at the deadline was mediocre at best. Got little help for the offense. But whatever …. Your spin is comical.

4) ….Keep on …. Did you blow your wad yet? I’m. Judging him by the fact that other than Eflin didn’t contribute much to the team winning in 2024. 
 

5) Last year we traded assets for a near 5 ERA pitcher who was having a bad year. This was opposed to getting a guy that could actually come in and provide quality starts to help the team. He was so great Elias made no attempt to bring him back. Flaherty was able to figure out how to cut his WHIP from 1.5-1.6 to 1.0–1.2 that he was in 2022 & 2023. This year Dodgers GM added a pitcher with a low 3 ERA in 18 starts before the trade. Surely you are going to come up with some babble to dismiss this …but, you dont trade for projects or guys you need to fix in the middle of a pennant race. 
 

Im not crying about the Rogers trade. But it was truly awful example of how Elias thinks he’s smarter than everyone else and can fix guys having poor to mediocre seasons in the middle of a pennant race.

6) Again, putting words in my mouth

I said to give him this offseason when not having an owner willing to spend played a role in his decision making. He will no longer have the cheap owner preventing his moves that are meaningful. 
 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Roll Tide

[Roll Tide]

On 10/25/2024 at 2:17 PM, Can_of_corn said:

I will say that the second half swoon has really damped down the Elias is infallible narrative.

I don't see anyone posting about how they need to lock him up to an unprecedented contract for an executive.

@Pickles obviously disagrees with you, you Loser

[btdart20]

8 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

The goal needs to be the World Series

Here you say the goal is a WS.  In another thread you say perennial contender like the 60-70's.  Those goals cause tension in how a smaller mid-market team runs the org that get painted over trivially in our fanhood.

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, Pickles said:

Nobody put words in your mouth.  I asked you questions.  That you can't answer them should suggest to you how thought out our positions are.

1) The goal is the World Series.  What makes you think it isn't?

2)  That's the most generic statement possible that is impossible to analyze,

3) So Elfin, Burnes, Bradish, Cano, etc.  don't count because you don't want them to count.  But other than that, he's got a bad track record of trading..... .like what trade?  Are we all supposed to go insane and only evaluate one trade- the Rodgers trade- in the most hyperbolic terms necessary to justify our hyperbole?

4) So we judge him for hypothetical trades that we didn't make and can't even be analyzed?  LOL.

Flaherty was a worthless trade?  This is the same Flaherty that started Game 1 of the World Series this year, right?

Oh, so you just want to cry about Rodgers ad nauseum?  Cry ahead.

So you want to fire the most successful GM we've had since Pat Gillick but you haven't even thought about who'd you replace him with?  And wouldn't even bothered until he was fired?  You understand how stupid that is, right?

His obsession for Norby clouds everything else. Norby isn’t even that good but he believes he’s some really good player…even though he can’t play defense and there are some legit concerns with his bat.

Rogers has a 4 WAR season..the guy he says sucks.

Norby may not be a 4 WAR guy in his entire career unless he greatly improves, which may be tough for him considering his age.

All of it is based around those 2 players and his completely factually wrong way of looking at them.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

His obsession for Norby clouds everything else. Norby isn’t even that good but he believes he’s some really good player…even though he can’t play defense and there are some legit concerns with his bat.

Rogers has a 4 WAR season..the guy he says sucks.

Norby may not be a 4 WAR guy in his entire career unless he greatly improves, which may be tough for him considering his age.

All of it is based around those 2 players and his completely factually wrong way of looking at them.

Ummm …no Troll! We traded prospects for worthless players. Rogers did nothing to help the Orioles after the trade. Who cares what he use to be…. I care about what he is now which is a one war fifth starter/ long reliever. BTW …Stat guy BBREF has his 2021 season as 3.5 WAR .l. But make it up to suit your needs! His WAR over his 4-5 year career is 3.9. So outside his one season he’s pretty much replacement level. You wouldn’t argue this with anyone else ….Again your just being a troll

Edited 58 minutes ago by Roll Tide