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Andy MacPhail - Disappointing GM

JTrea81

By JTrea81
in Orioles Talk

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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So you're saying that an average MLB GM would have taken one of the worst organizations in the league and in 2-3 years infused tons of young talent and put them on the verge of a winning team in the AL East?

What, a good GM would have actually had us in the playoffs this year and built a #1 farm system at the same time?

Bavasi and Wade were two of the worst GMs in the sport, so yes an average GM could have fleeced them IMO. Maybe they wouldn't get Butler, but he hasn't exactly panned out. Jordan made the draft choices and Wieters wasn't even drafted under him, rather a below average GM in Duquette. All of the other trades besides the Bedard and Tejada ones, minus the Sherrill trade have produced no future full time ML players. Again, I think an average GM could have pulled off Bell and Johnson for Sherrill considering his value.

MacPhail gets far too much credit for making the moves he should make and far too much absolving for the moves he doesn't IMO...

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itsernst Major Leaguer Rising Star

itsernst

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And many people think I'm angry at MacPhail for not signing Tex, and while I'm dissapointed, I'm not angry.

I am however angry at the approach he took in his pursuit of Teixeira.

And it's amazing to me, that when you had a player like Tex that had hometown ties, that had Baltimore as a potential destination even though it wasn't #1, and that you gave the lowest offer of any team that tried to land him, that people think MacPhail will suddenly change his pursuit tactics for a FA like Gonzalez, Fielder, Howard or Pujols who, don't have hometown ties, and don't have the Orioles on their list at all most likely.

Why will MacPhail suddenly be aggressive and go after guys that don't want to play here when he was so passive with one that might have had the offer been right. And why will he overpay for those FAs over the Yankees and Red Sox when he wasn't willing to for Teixeira?

And why will he do this when he's never done it in his career?

He has a history of making great trades and stockpiling pitching. He has no history of keeping a good stockpile of position players or pursuing and signing that premium bat or arm to put a team over the top.

We don't have the money to compete with the MFY's and RSN. It just isn't fiscally responsible to invest 20% of your operating salary into one player when you have many other holes to fill. The Tex situation was not going to work. They offered Tex 20 million a year, he wanted more. Life goes on.

Andy McPhail's approach is slow and methodical. But there is a plan that he has in place that should benefit this team in the long run. Of course there is no sure thing (FA, Young talent), but a massive influx of young talent puts you in a better situation if one of those pieces does fault. As opposed to a massive spending spree that doesn't work, which puts you in a financial bind with large contracts and underperforming players.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Before AM, our FO ranked around 4, and after AM, its around 7. Meanwhile, the Yanks and Red Sox are at 10 consistently and show no signs of slowing down
How are they at a 10? They never make mistakes?

No, that's BS.

They have good FO in your mind because they have such bigger amounts of money to spend. They can take on risks that we simply can't take on. They can give Carl Pavano or Julio Lugo $40M and when they completely implode, it makes no difference.

Having no financial restraints or very light financial restraints makes GMs look a lot smarter. Because all their smart moves or risky moves that pan out look fantastic, and the risky moves that don't pan out or dumb moves don't have the huge negative impact they would for everybody else because the team can just sweep them under the rug because of their financial situation.

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zff4 Major Leaguer

zff4

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I'll be the first to say I'm disappointed we didn't get Teix. He would have been a nice big bopping anchor to complement our OF and would have removed that question mark at 1st. And frankly, my disappointment deepens as the season lengthens as I don't see a comparable FA available in the off season.

But it's water under the infield and old news and while we didn't get Teix, neither did any other team in the bidding save the Yanks - his absence here doesn't indict MacPhail as in the same way it doesn't indict Theo or any other manager who didn't get him.

Judging MacPhail by what hasn't happened while oblivious to the improvements seems unfair to the man - the big money extensions to Brob and Nick; the utterly recreated OF we now have; the fat stock of young arms to either play or deal; we might even have a 3B in the wings now - we've seen improvements at a rate and on an order we haven't seen in forever.

If we don't have a team contending in 2011 I'll be the first to shout Andy down at the State of the Orioles address, but until then I haven't seen any evidence that we're not on a road to steady and significant improvement.

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TiredofLosing20 Major Leaguer

TiredofLosing20

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How are they at a 10? They never make mistakes?

No, that's BS.

They have good FO in your mind because they have such bigger amounts of money to spend. They can take on risks that we simply can't take on. They can give Carl Pavano or Julio Lugo $40M and when they completely implode, it makes no difference.

Having no financial restraints or very light financial restraints makes GMs look a lot smarter. Because all their smart moves or risky moves that pan out look fantastic, and the risky moves that don't pan out or dumb moves don't have the huge negative impact they would for everybody else because the team can just sweep them under the rug because of their financial situation.

Actually I would argue that Cashman is one of the worst GMs out there.

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stomperspc Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

stomperspc

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Why will MacPhail suddenly be aggressive and go after guys that don't want to play here when he was so passive with one that might have had the offer been right. And why will he overpay for those FAs over the Yankees and Red Sox when he wasn't willing to for Teixeira?

And why will he do this when he's never done it in his career?

Maybe because he has seen the error of his ways and will change? Maybe because he feels this situation is different than his situations in the past with other teams?

I don't know. The fact of the matter is McPhail has said before that when we are ready to compete, the team will spend money on the necesarry peices. Just because he hasn't done something yet in his career doesn't mean he is incapable (or unwilling) to ever do it. Of course there is the chance that it is just lip service and when push comes to shove, AM will fail to sign the missing peices the teams needs to compete year in and year out. However, that is just speculation right now. AM said they will spend when the time is right. You don't think he will because he hasn't in the past. Only time will tell what happens, but it is silly to base your whole argument on "he hasn't done this before so he never will".

As for Tex, I know this is beating a dead horse but it isn't as cut and dry as you'd like to make it out to be. As far as we know, the O's didn't fail to land Tex JUST because they didn't make the highest offer or "wine and dine him" correctly. They made him an initial offer, they were never given a chance to up their offer, and he signed with the team that by all acounts, was the team he really wanted to go to. Unless something comes out to the contrary, any other "failure" on the Orioles' part to land Tex is just hersay.

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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I kind of get the sense though that all that really matters is that he didn't sign one other individual desperate O's fans looked to as an instant savior.

No all that really matters is that not that he didn't sign the player, rather his poor attempt and lack of aggressiveness in trying to sign said player, and how that fits the profile and track record of his tenure in other organizations.

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TGO Hangout Grand Counsel

TGO

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Bavasi and Wade were two of the worst GMs in the sport, so yes an average GM could have fleeced them IMO. Maybe they wouldn't get Butler, but he hasn't exactly panned out. Jordan made the draft choices and Wieters wasn't even drafted under him, rather a below average GM in Duquette. All of the other trades besides the Bedard and Tejada ones, minus the Sherrill trade have produced no future full time ML players. Again, I think an average GM could have pulled off Bell and Johnson for Sherrill considering his value.

MacPhail gets far too much credit for making the moves he should make and far too much absolving for the moves he doesn't IMO...

Wade is still a GM. Why hasn't anyone fleeced him today? In fact, why hasn't anyone fleeced him all year?

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Satyr3206 Hangout Grand Counsel

Satyr3206

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Some of these comments just make me shake my head and wonder. I completely disagree with the opening post and additions and now I know the Team is being run right because of this ridiculous line of thought.

Newsflash: The Yankees and Red Sox have a lot more CASH than the Orioles. That means you have to build an Organization in a different manner. Pretty simple actually.

And I swore I wouldn't post in this thread.:laughlol:

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MemorialStadKid All-Star

MemorialStadKid

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"Buy the bats, grow the arms" is obviously a smart move. Now if a good arm comes along we certainly should be involved in going after them, and MacPhail has already said he would love to sign an arm if the right guy is there. Again this is a result of the fact that FA hitters are much more reliable and more likely to be worth their contracts than FA pitching.

I guess Beckett and Sabathia aren't worth their contracts.

MSK

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