Bergy discussions - Can we count on him now that he's a year out from his injury?

[Arthur_Bryant]

Seriously, does anyone know what to make of this kid. I had all but written him off and now he comes back with this? Just keep running him out there I guess and we'll see.

His TV-spot injury pretty much ruined the first half of this season for him, I think. A lot of his inconsistency can be laid there.

He is evolving -- he's a much better pitcher now than he was when he came up. I thought that he was living on the edge last year, even when he started going well. It seemed to me that he had to be almost perfect with the slider and two-seamer to be effective. But what I've seen these last three games appears to be repeatable. It doesn't look like a fluke to me.

[now]

What, no love for Tillman? And Britton already anointed? First things first. Let's ride this new Bergy the same as the old (09) Bergy...

[bluedog]

I'm not sure I agree with the "he is what he is" comment. He is a very intelligent guy who will continue to do everything he can to improve his game. He's willing to work in different pitches like the 4 seamer that seems to have become a significant part of his game recently. He'll continue to evolve as pitcher as he gains experience and confidence. I think we're just seeing the beginnings of what he (and Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta for that matter) can do.

Berge's ceiling in terms of the quality of his pitches may be limited, but the quality of his pitch selection, his command, his understanding of opposing players, etc. can all improve significantly with time and should make him better in the future.

[Arthur_Bryant]

He is what he is, he has no more real development to do IMO. His calling card is command, movement and tempo(working quickly). When he is in a groove, he is able to do all 3 well. Last year, he did all 3 well all year. In his last 3 games, he has also done all three things well.

Actually, I think he has been developing since he came up, and he may not be done. No, he doesn't have any physical development left, but he has made some serious refinement to his game. Seems to me that he has even more sink on the two-seamer, the four-seamer has become a really effective complement to the two-seamer, and he has been flashing a wicked slider.

As I said in another thread, I thought last season that he was succeeding somewhat on smoke and mirrors. His command had to be perfect. But I haven't had that impression in his last three starts.

Players are never quite as good as they look when they're on a roll, and tonight was possibly his best game as a pro, so I don't want to go overboard. But he has been showing dimensions that I never expected to see from him.

EDIT: Just realized that I never answered the question in the OP, about whether I see him in the rotation in two years. Answer: I didn't last season, but I'm starting to come around to "yes."

[24fps]

Can we get some of the people who laughed at the idea of Bergesen having the potential to be a dominant pitcher to now admit its not so far fetched? His last three starts have been phenomenal and he's pitching like a bona fide #1 (small sample size notwithstanding), just like he did at the end of last season.

He may not have a dominant pitch, but his exceptional control and ability to force opponents to put the ball in play early in the count, thus extending his ability to stay in the game have the potential to be elite traits. The lack of a truly dominant pitch doesn't mean he can't be a dominant pitcher.

I've been a Bergesen supporter all along, but I think those who've criticized his low K rate have a point. Let's see how he fares against an ump with a punitive strike zone before declaring him fully evolved. I remember his April 19 start all too clearly.

That being said, what a great game he pitched tonight. :clap3:

[now]

This reminded me of his game against the Red Sox last year that JJ/Sherrill blew.

Ouch.

This one may have been more impressive.

Quite impressive.

Scary in the ninth, though, 99 pitches and Choo the tying run up ... and Gonzo up in the bullpen. Intriguing situation for Buck! Either Bergy or Gonzo could have easily blown it, given some unpleasant past history, espec. on the part of the "closers."

Obvious that he made the right call!

The interesting subplot: Both Simon and Gonzo rested; Buck picks Gonzo.

Then again, it doesn't have to mean a "commitment."

All in all, this decision and the one to leave Bergy in: refreshing!

[jjdman]

Ouch.

Quite impressive.

Scary in the ninth, though, 99 pitches and Choo the tying run up ... and Gonzo up in the bullpen. Intriguing situation for Buck! Either Bergy or Gonzo could have easily blown it, given some unpleasant past history, espec. on the part of the "closers."

Obvious that he made the right call!

The interesting subplot: Both Simon and Gonzo rested; Buck picks Gonzo.

Then again, it doesn't have to mean a "commitment."

All in all, this decision and the one to leave Bergy in: refreshing!

Choo vs LHP .700 OPS vs RHP .978 OPSthat's a no brainer for Buck.

[praveen520]

It really tells you how devastating that injury was physically and mentally. The last thing to recover after an injury like that is your self-confidence.

[crowmst3k!]

Bergesen is, IMO, one of our best pitchers. His performance this year is goofed because of a combination of the commercial and the shin, but it seems that the period of ineffectiveness in his sinker has passed.

Bergesen has a filth nasty breaking ball, I guess it's a really just a slider that the bottom just falls out. He also has kind of a slurve that trails away from righties (I saw this pitch more last year). His fastball is average, but sinks. These pitches complement each other very well, but the big issue with Bergesen is this: if his sinker is not working, he's very hittable.

I think the strong development of a deceptive changeup will go far in helping Bergesen from being very good to being elite. If his sinker stops working, he should be able to rack some K's with a good change, ala Greg Maddux.

[George]

I don't want to count on anybody. The O's need more than 5 potentially excellent MLB starting pitchers. Seven starters would allow fans and the front office to be confident about the future. A couple of these guys would be in the minors at any one time and they would be ready to step up when an Oriole pitcher falters. Injuries and loss of effectiveness are inevitable. Who will be the O's pitcher we penciled into the rotation during the Winter and Spring and then lose in April/May due to injury or ineffectiveness? Nobody knows.

Due to his surgery, Erbe, who some penciled into the future rotation, may never become an O's starting pitcher. It's a cliche, but it has some truth: You can't have too much pitching.

[McLovin]

Hate to burst the bubbles, but...

Did he look better after the 6th? Because I watched though the 6th, and he was more lucky than good. He was getting line drives and fly balls - the sinker wasn't sinking. Through 6 about half his pitches were balls too.

Don't forget, this was the Indians.

[Sanfran327]

I think it's funny that we are wondering 'if' we can count on Bergesen when he's blown Matusz, Tillman, and Arrieta away for their careers. He's produced the best results by far. Aside from the start of this year after he hurt himself (during a freaking commercial of all things) where he was clearly bothered by his shoulder, he's done nothing but get hitters out. It may not be flashy, but he gets the job done on a more consistent basis than any of our young pitchers. I think he's more than a #5. I'm not sure yet what any of the other young guys are.

[AgentOrange]

Hate to burst the bubbles, but...

Did he look better after the 6th? Because I watched though the 6th, and he was more lucky than good. He was getting line drives and fly balls - the sinker wasn't sinking. Through 6 about half his pitches were balls too.

Don't forget, this was the Indians.

He looked much better as the game went on.

[Tony-OH]

His stuff looks like it's starting to rebound back to it's 2009 form. Last night his slider had the depth it had last year and that's a huge pitch for him. His command of late has been fantastic as well. A year out from the leg injury and eight months away from his shoulder woes, maybe it's just starting to come back?

Let's hope so because a healthy Bergesen who pitches like he did in 2009 and his last few starts is a guy this team needs.

[murrayfan420]

If Bergy can give us 200+ innings and an ERA around 4.50 he would help the rotation out a lot.