Do you agree with the O's decision to recall Britton from Norfolk?

[Stotle]

Bergesen is already in the rotation and Buck has already said he couldn't go tomorrow because he can't get deep into a game yet. The pitcher that can't be trusted is the AAAA pitcher they call up who would likely have the same issue.

Apparently what doesn't matter to you the mindset of this team. Many players remember the Adam Eatons, the Jon Leicesters and they saw how poorly those guys pitched in placeholder duty.

The team wouldn't respond well to the Orioles essentially punting those starts vs. playoff teams IMO, and Buck has to make sure these guys are well motivated since they need to win now.

But it's obvious that winning now, and the mindset of these players is not important for you so no argument would convince you.

We are no longer rebuilding and this team is treating this season like it's a playoff run. They have to because that's the mindset of the players and what they've been pounding into them from Day 1 of ST. Like it or not, that's the way it is, and that's why it makes sense to put your best 25 out there and try to win as many games as you can.

I have yet to see evidence that you understand this concept in practice, and not just as a theoretical abstract powered by your quasi-fantasyland player evaluations.

[Stotle]

Bergesen didn't get much work at the end of ST, did he?

I think if that is a concern you could have any number of players take the ball on Sunday to give Bergie one more time through the rotation to help stretch out a little more, and shift him to #3/#4 the second time through. No? I mean, even with Britton up you need Bergesen to at least throw in a 5th starter's capacity.

As an aside, I also marvel at how much more dominant Matusz was at the minor league level, and how much more level-headed people generally were around his call-up (granted, they chicken-littled the heck out of him when he struggled some early on last year).

You'd think Britton has had a David Price tour through A/AA/AAA with confidence folks have in him being highly successful right off the bat. I really hope he is -- but I think it's a lot to expect, and sort of a disingenuous way to pump up an argument that he SHOULD be called up now as opposed to three weeks from now.

Also, to be clear, I have a larger issue with Baltimore flip-flopping in their approach than I do actually deciding to call him up. Had they given him a spot in the rotation out of the spring, with the mentality that if he struggles he goes back down for 5-7 starts and the service time ultimately doesn't come into play, fine. But make the service time important, then abandon it in one day (I know I'm repeating myself, sorry, I'll stop) just doesn't sit well with me.

[Malike]

I'd rather they left Britton in AAA and used someone else to start on Sunday. What I'm going to find interesting (and upsetting) is what Trea's stance is going to be now that Tillman no-hit the Rays during his start, if Britton gets lit up like a Christmas tree. Of course, I want the sweep, but I do look forward to his analysis, should the above mentioned scenario happen.

[orayole]

I'd rather they left Britton in AAA and used someone else to start on Sunday. What I'm going to find interesting (and upsetting) is what Trea's stance is going to be now that Tillman no-hit the Rays during his start, if Britton gets lit up like a Christmas tree. Of course, I want the sweep, but I do look forward to his analysis, should the above mentioned scenario happen.

People keep mentioning just sunday.....What about every 5th day after that? Who are you putting in there? Matusz is going to be out for up to 6 weeks, not 1 day.

[Sports Guy]

Well, Tillman pitched well today.

Pretty much made Jtrea's arguments look as poor as we thought they were.

[BaltimoreTerp]

People keep mentioning just sunday.....What about every 5th day after that? Who are you putting in there? Matusz is going to be out for up to 6 weeks, not 1 day.

Who cares? 30 starts are worth more than six-or-seven starts (less, since after all he can come up in three weeks). Especially considering the former would come in a season we would hope we are truly contending while the latter are in this season where we are hoping for .500.

[JTrea81]

Well, Tillman pitched well today.

Pretty much made Jtrea's arguments look as poor as we thought they were.

Not sure why you bring this up in a Britton thread.

Tillman got away with a lot of stuff and a generous strike zone from the ump. Brignac and Shoppach just missed hitting balls out.

That said you can't argue with the result so I was pleasantly surprised, but he still looks like Penn out there IMO.

I'm sure Zach will be a little wild to start out, but my guess is that Fox will be catching him and they worked well together in Sarasota.

[DrungoHazewood]

Not sure why you bring this up in a Britton thread.

Because you explicitly stated that all games started by Tillman or other potential Britton replacements were almost guaranteed losses. You were the one who said it was a near certainty that the O's would lose four additional games because of the strategy of sending Britton to Norfolk for a few weeks.

Tillman no-hitting the Rays for six innings highlights the absurdity of that position.

[DenaTerpFan]

In my humble opinion, losing a year of service time for 3 starts in a year where it is not likely they make the postseason is extremely shortsighted. If they get the wildcard or the division and Britton's three starts leading to April 20 make the difference, I will feel differently. I hope this works out...

[Crazysilver03]

I was a supporter of sending Zach Britton down for service time issues. But I do understand Trea's argument about wondering if Britton will even make it 6 years.

Now while the Orioles' haven't necessarily had a pitcher of Britton's caliber besides Bedard prior to the cavalry-era, the Orioles' history with pitchers isn't that great. Bedard was traded a year before free agency and we made out. If we hadn't traded him and he went on to be hurt, it would have been interesting to see if he was resigned or if MacPhail would have let him go. Guthrie has been the first Orioles' pitcher in a long time to last four seasons in the rotation and we still have him for two more. We hope Arrieta, Britton, Matusz, Tillman, and Bergesen can repeat that task.

As of now, assuming everyone stays in the majors, which is a big assumption, the Orioles control Matusz & Bergesen for five more seasons, while they have six years of control for Arrieta, Britton, and Tillman.

I agree, in theory, 30 starts later vs 4 starts now is a lights-out one-sided victory, but, how practical is it?

We are striving to have a top notch farm system and that involves being able to continue to develop pitching. Hopefully, within six seasons, we would have traded for or developed new pitchers to take over. We will be trading one or two pitchers away as arbitration years approach simply because it isn't economically feasible to keep all five.

Coming back to the immediate situation. I would have understood the reasoning behind putting Drese or Jaku... in the rotation, but adding Britton adds excitement and your best candidate at the moment. And this is all before unforeseen circumstances come up that may allow for Britton to be sent down.

As for the idea that he can be sent down at the end of the season, I doubt that would occur. Very few teams do that and I don't see that as a Showalter move. If the Orioles are still in meaningful games he will want the strongest roster possible.

[JTrea81]

Jim Callis' comments about Britton speak volumes about why the Orioles had to call him up:

"I think he is ready for the big leagues. He has no obvious weakness and did get in 12 starts last year at Triple-A and pitched well," Callis said. "That said, the Orioles have no shot at contending this year, so from a team standpoint, I don't think it makes any sense to bring the guy up until you know you have delayed his arbitration and free agent clock by a year.

"It stinks, but that's the way it is. I don't see what the benefit is to the Orioles in bringing him up in April, rather than June," Callis added. "You just might make him a free agent or arbitration eligible player earlier than you need to. There is no real gain.

"Maybe he would pitch 50 innings in the minors then have 100 or so in the majors over the last four months. It stinks for fans to hear that, but it's the way the system is right now. Unless you are contending, there is no incentive to call-up a guy like that at the beginning of the season."

As I've repeated if the Orioles didn't call him up it would tell their players they didn't think they could win and that would undermine everything they've done to this point since the offseason began.

[JTrea81]

Only you could quote a guy who disagrees with your position and act like it reinforces your positioin.

As I've said it's mindset. So many people have said the O's don't have a shot at contending, so they should just leave Britton down.

Just about all those same people have said Britton is ready for the majors.

Therefore if the O's leave Britton down, what do you think the players are going to think? Right now they think they have a chance to win every game. You want that mindset to continue.

[ChrisAF79]

Jim Callis' comments about Britton speak volumes about why the Orioles had to call him up:

As I've repeated if the Orioles didn't call him up it would tell their players they didn't think they could win and that would undermine everything they've done to this point since the offseason began.

This is pure insanity. Well done.

Do you honestly think that the players think like this? Hell, do you think that anyone actually thinks this way?

[El Gordo]

As I've said it's mindset. So many people have said the O's don't have a shot at contending, so they should just leave Britton down.

Just about all those same people have said Britton is ready for the majors.

Therefore if the O's leave Britton down, what do you think the players are going to think? Right now they think they have a chance to win every game. You want that mindset to continue.

As much as I hate to agree with a Mainiac, I do think it's evident that Buck is not taking a" we aren't going anywhere this season" attitude, but rather an" every game is meaniful" attitude. It would be difficult to get the players to buy into that if they replaced Matusz with Drese/Jako/Hurk. How would he back this up?

For Drese/Jako/Hurk?:rofl: