Mora may drop his NTC!!!!!!!!!

[El Gordo]

So, you don't think there are a group of ballplayers on that team that were very upset with Mora when they read that article?

I do and I think this wound won't heal itself unless he works to heal it. I really think there are quite a few people that aren't fully appreciating how this article will go over in the clubhouse with the players. To a degree, it is irrelevant what the fans think. I'm worried about the team. I'm not giving up on him because I'm upset. I'm giving up on him because I think he will be a part of the problem next year EVEN if he does nothing else divisive. The team leaders won't want him there after these statements IMO.

I think they've heard it before and it's been dealt with. It's old news to them IMO. I don't think ballplayers attribute nearly as much importance to "statements in the press" as some of us tend to do. We cling to these "reports" as small shards of evidence or clues to what is truly going down in the clubhouse; that intersanctum of sports that we can never enter.

[RShack]

RShack is like the Latino Al Sharpton.

Claiming racial hatred by the fans, always defending the Latino players when they screw up. It’s always someone else’s' fault these guys are the real victims right? Losing season, disrespected, why me, etc. etc...

From now on I will recognize you as Alonzo Sharptonuez,

Do you even read stuff here? I'm not always "defending Latino players", but I do sometimes defend *Oriole players* when I see a lynch mob forming... like when I defended Bedard, and like when I stuck up for BRob when people here ready to shoot him just because he said it would be nice if Oriole fans showed up for some home games vs. BOS and the MFY's....

As for the other stuff, I'm not the one who started throwing "nazi-esque" around, so just do your homework, OK? As for the racial thing, that's been an open topic over here: http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54716. Nobody's gotten ugly about it (yet), so the thread is not locked (for the moment). If you want to have a mature conversation about it without slinging mud or being hateful, I'm happy to converse with you about it over there...

[RShack]

You seem to be saying that he had a bad day (month/year/etc???) and that he said some irrational things that he didn't really mean. Perhaps that is true, but I think we have to judge the man based on what he said. This isn't someone else paraphrasing him or giving opinions. These are direct quotes.

I agree that he had no business saying some of what he said. I accept the fact that some will do "character assassination" because of it. None of this puzzles me. And I think it's Melvin's own fault for opening his trap to a reporter. But I don't think it's as simple as whether they are direct quotes or not. As I said before, I bet he could be having a direct conversation with you, and say lots of stuff in that conversation, and at the end of the conversation you could see how he felt that way, and then you could go back and fine the quotes in there somewhere. So, maybe our main disagreement is how much weight we put on what was presented in the paper.

Words matter. If the words can be read different ways, I'm always willing to look the other way. I've proven that with previous Mora flaps, the Millar flap, etc.... These words are quite clear in several different passages.

OK. Then maybe we just disagree whether we think this particular set of words are "incontrovertible evidence" of being a bad guy. You think they are, I'm not so sure...

Finally, please don't accuse me of things like being the "brain police" and that I think he "deserves hanging". You're intentionally hyperbolizing my stance to make it easier to discredit and that is beneath you IMHO. Thanks

Sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way. To me, "hanging offense" is nothing but an idiomatic about severity, sorry if it came across wrong. As for the "Brain Police", this might be a generational thing: it was the theme of an old Zappa record with the Mothers of Invention, so it's probably part of my cultural references that maybe younger folks don't share.

Regardless, I think you're a good guy, you know that. I've got no beef with you.

We just disagree about whether the "Brain Police" should "hang" Melvin ;-) ;-) ;-)

[Boy Howdy]

This is such a jaded view of ballplayers. I'm shocked you would say this.

I'm not happy about it, but I do believe it's true for the most part when you're talking about a team whose most devoted fans concede will finish in fourth place if things break right.

[DrungoHazewood]

Melvin Mora is making a little over $8M a year. Over the past two years he's been worth about five WARP1. In recent free agency, on average, one WARP has cost roughly $2M.

If you assume Mora will be worth 2-3 WARP in both '08 and '09, and that free agent salaries will continue to be at least on par with last winter Mora is fairly paid.

I think he's can be dealt for decent value. I'm sure somewhere in these 15 pages this has been mentioned, but I think a prime target should be the Phillies - he'd certainly waive his NTC for a team two hours up the road, and they have a hole at third base big enough to drive Ryan Howard through.

[AgentOrange]

Melvin Mora is making a little over $8M a year. Over the past two years he's been worth about five WARP1. In recent free agency, on average, one WARP has cost roughly $2M.

If you assume Mora will be worth 2-3 WARP in both '08 and '09, and that free agent salaries will continue to be at least on par with last winter Mora is fairly paid.

I think he's can be dealt for decent value. I'm sure somewhere in these 15 pages this has been mentioned, but I think a prime target should be the Phillies - he'd certainly waive his NTC for a team two hours up the road, and they have a hole at third base big enough to drive Ryan Howard through.

I think the Phillies are a prime target and I think he could do well there. Nice hitting park for Melvin to get his stats up.

I wouldn't even want anything in return to be honest. a PTBNL would be all I could hope for.

[RShack]

However, that changed when this story came out. Mora is going to have a tough time unringing this bell short of apologizing to the team (which isn't likely) IMO. In my experience both playing ball and in the workforce, statements like the ones he made are poison to a team, teamwork, subjugating for the good of the whole, etc...

Well, this might be the crux of where we see it differently. I don't think either one of us knows what it's like to be pretty much locked up with 25 other guys for 6 months straight and have everything go to hell. As for workforce, I know something about that. I've had as many as 200 people working for me, but in a less competitive environment than big-league ball. And, while my bosses didn't always love me, most of my subordinates thought I was a good guy, so I pretty much knew most of what was going on. And, in my experience, bullsh!t comes and goes. People say stuff, people get mad, and people get over it. (Except maybe around here.)

I could be wrong and you could be right, but I'd be very surprised if his teammates get all worked up about stuff in the paper. I bet one thing they all share is lots of lore about how that stuff goes bad in a hurry.

The only think I really think is completely "over the top" is taking a set of dang newspaper quotes and treating it like "the missing link" that explains why the team doesn't seem all jolly after having a whole bunch of terrible seasons in which lots of bizarre stuff went wrong for them. People are taking this, and using it to somehow explain everything they don't understand. I think that's crazy. I think it's like not unlike saying your pet hamster died because the Clinton's told the CIA to do it: Yeah, that *could* explain everything, but I kinda doubt it ;-)

[El Gordo]

Well, this might be the crux of where we see it differently. I don't think either one of us knows what it's like to be pretty much locked up with 25 other guys for 6 months straight and have everything go to hell. As for workforce, I know something about that. I've had as many as 200 people working for me, but in a less competitive environment than big-league ball. And, while my bosses didn't always love me, most of my subordinates thought I was a good guy, so I pretty much knew most of what was going on. And, in my experience, bullsh!t comes and goes. People say stuff, people get mad, and people get over it. (Except maybe around here.)

I could be wrong and you could be right, but I'd be very surprised if his teammates get all worked up about stuff in the paper. I bet one thing they all share is lots of lore about how that stuff goes bad in a hurry.

The only think I really think is completely "over the top" is taking a set of dang newspaper quotes and treating it like "the missing link" that explains why the team doesn't seem all jolly after having a whole bunch of terrible seasons in which lots of bizarre stuff went wrong for them. People are taking this, and using it to somehow explain everything they don't understand. I think that's crazy. I think it's like not unlike saying your pet hamster died because the Clinton's told the CIA to do it: Yeah, that *could* explain everything, but I kinda doubt it ;-)

It wasn't his pet hampster Clinton killed it was Kathleen Willy's cat.http://wonkette.com/politics/hillary-kills-*****/hillary-killz-kitteh-perhaps-320460.php

[RShack]

It wasn't his pet hampster Clinton killed it was Kathleen Willy's cat.http://wonkette.com/politics/hillary-kills-*****/hillary-killz-kitteh-perhaps-320460.php

Are you friggin' kidding me?

If you made this stuff up, nobody would believe you... (I hope).

I'm so naive... I thought these people didn't do drugs (except maybe painkillers ;-)

[El Gordo]

Are you friggin' kidding me?

If you made this stuff up, nobody would believe you... (I hope).

I'm so naive... I thought these people didn't do drugs (except maybe painkillers ;-)

It was all over Fox News the other night. Anything to avoid reporting the real news.

[Fairfax Bird]

The funeral was almost two years ago. It's time to let go of your anger and realize that perfectly intelligent, compassionate, well-meaning human beings have differing opinions on the issue. Ridiculing those who disagree with you isn't going to make you feel any better about it or bring them over to your point of view.

I wasn't ridiculing, I was disagreeing, no where in my post did I ridicule his position.

[Fairfax Bird]

Someone else here said the Phillies. He is the perfect solution to the Phillies problems at 3B. He can fill in there next year and if he continues to decline they can find a long term replacement.