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What should be done with Guerrero?


jiminnj

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Why do you think Reimold and Pie would be platooning? Reimold doesn't have huge L/R splits historically. Wouldn't it be just as likely that Reimold would be the starting LF and Pie would have the same role he has now?

I think it would depend on how well each of them were playing.

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He will if he doesn't like Baltimore and I'm not sure that he does...

At his current pace, Vlad is still a Type-A free agent. He would have to completely bottom out to drop down to Type B, at which point he would have been so horrible you wouldnt offer arbitration. You don't offer arbitration to a Type-A Vlad. No team will give up a pick for him.

And who would have guessed, his second half of last season might of actually been an indication of something.

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Right...so this goes back to my prior question. Do the O's really have a vested interest in continuing to play Vlad at this point? If he gets hot, he becomes Type A. Maybe that makes him less valuable to other teams in a trade, we don't move him. And then we sink $8 mill for nothing. If he gets hot for two weeks and we can't trade him, that could be a pretty much be the maximum worst case scenario that Drungo had referenced.

What if we just sat him down? If a team needed him for injury or other reasons, the intrigue level goes up. He might be getting some resting time, etc. which teams might interpret as a good thing. You could leverage him into important RBI situations, a stat that might make him appear more valuable. And with limited at bats, his status wouldn't have the same opportunity to increase.

I think the only real hope with Vlad is to just dump him on someone in August as a waiver claim.

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.

Let him finish the season with us at DH.

For the time being, keep him in the lineup and see if he can catch fire.

If he doesn't catch fire after another month, bench him for most of the remaining 60 games.

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Maybe an Aubrey Huff trade, for some kind of semi-warm body throwing in AA.

That's really the only hope at this point. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible if we work out a deal where we pick up most, if not all, of his remaining contract.

Also, he's not going to be put on the bench. Not now, and not if he is on the team in September. He might go from playing 7 days a week to 5 but he's going to be in the lineup most nights. Out of respect, Buck isn't going to sit a future HOF who, while in decline, is still one of the best 3 or 4 hitters on the team. You signed him to play every day as your DH and he is out there giving you everything he has everyday. It would be disrespectful to bench him, especially to play some arbitration game.

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You signed him to play every day as your DH and he is out there giving you everything he has everyday. It would be disrespectful to bench him, especially to play some arbitration game.

This frustrates me. And not what you're saying CCBird, but if this is what was promised to him when we signed him.

We signed him to create a winning team, not have him hit int he 4 spot 7 days a week. The promises made to him should have been if he's helping the team win, he can have his spot. If he's not...good riddance. I get that he's a HOFer and I get that he probably has more talent in his career than most of the guys on this roster ever will and many of them combined. But I'm not for giving anyone anything, I'd rather the O's 'play the arbitration game' and worry about being better in the long term than worry about Vlad being a bit temperamental because he's past his prime.

Honestly if this means that aging past their prime vets won't be interested in signing here any more, I also say good riddance. It's about what's doing what's right for the O's long term, not about respecting a guy because he used to hit 40 homers. Just look at where respecting their elders is going to get the Yankees...

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This frustrates me. And not what you're saying CCBird, but if this is what was promised to him when we signed him.

We signed him to create a winning team, not have him hit int he 4 spot 7 days a week. The promises made to him should have been if he's helping the team win, he can have his spot. If he's not...good riddance. I get that he's a HOFer and I get that he probably has more talent in his career than most of the guys on this roster ever will and many of them combined. But I'm not for giving anyone anything, I'd rather the O's 'play the arbitration game' and worry about being better in the long term than worry about Vlad being a bit temperamental because he's past his prime.

Honestly if this means that aging past their prime vets won't be interested in signing here any more, I also say good riddance. It's about what's doing what's right for the O's long term, not about respecting a guy because he used to hit 40 homers. Just look at where respecting their elders is going to get the Yankees...

It would turn off the majority of people in MLB, not just aging vets. I get that you can manipulate the arbitration system but you don't play games with someone like Vlad Guerrero. Especially, not the way you proposed where you sit him hoping his arb status drops so it's more likely you pick up a draft pick. Most likely Guerrero would still accept, take his 6 mil, and laugh while he sits on the bench again next year.

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It would turn off the majority of people in MLB, not just aging vets. I get that you can manipulate the arbitration system but you don't play games with someone like Vlad Guerrero. Especially, not the way you proposed where you sit him hoping his arb status drops so it's more likely you pick up a draft pick. Most likely Guerrero would still accept, take his 6 mil, and laugh while he sits on the bench again next year.

I guess we just have to disagree about the purity of intentions of other players and the impacts these decisions might have on the rest of the team.

My larger point if we're going to bring in guys who feel like they 'deserve' something before they get here and then have to treat them differently than the Ryan Adams and Nolan Reimolds of the system, what does that do to our young talent and how they feel about playing time. If Nolan knows no matter how well he plays right now he's not going to get consistent playing time, despite the fact that in sporadic at bats he's got a higher OPS, what's his incentive system on this team.

I can only imagine how frustrating it was for Adams who has been said to be working really hard on his defense to see himself get zero playing time, and watch Andino get all those at bats. And then when they finally decide to bench Andino they go with Davis, who has never logged significant time at 2b for the year.

These decisions don't happen within a vacuum and I think what the O's do with Lee/Vlad will be something the minor league players see. And you never know how they are going to play out. But I will say that I'm frustrated at how much we're willing to pay our respects to the veterans of this team. Maybe I should be more patient but IMO the O's owe Vlad/Lee nothing. They are being paid to do help the team win which is decided at the GM and Managers discretion, and if they get upset over that, they should be DFA'd just like any minor leaguer that would take that attitude.

I'd rather have a system that pushes the younger guys to work hard and reward them with incentives than look at past performances of 35+ year old players.

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That's really the only hope at this point. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible if we work out a deal where we pick up most, if not all, of his remaining contract.

Also, he's not going to be put on the bench. Not now, and not if he is on the team in September. He might go from playing 7 days a week to 5 but he's going to be in the lineup most nights. Out of respect, Buck isn't going to sit a future HOF who, while in decline, is still one of the best 3 or 4 hitters on the team. You signed him to play every day as your DH and he is out there giving you everything he has everyday. It would be disrespectful to bench him, especially to play some arbitration game.

Vlad did great things with Montreal, with the Angels, and with Texas. How much respect did he get from them when he was seeking a contract this year? He has not done great things with the Os. He deserves respect for what he has done with us and what he might potentially do for us. Right now he has done little for us and with with his obvious decline in abilities it is unlikely he is going to do much for us the rest of the year. The Os don't owe anything to Vlad other than money (and we were the only ones who were willing to give him that this year).

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I guess we just have to disagree about the purity of intentions of other players and the impacts these decisions might have on the rest of the team.

My larger point if we're going to bring in guys who feel like they 'deserve' something before they get here and then have to treat them differently than the Ryan Adams and Nolan Reimolds of the system, what does that do to our young talent and how they feel about playing time. If Nolan knows no matter how well he plays right now he's not going to get consistent playing time, despite the fact that in sporadic at bats he's got a higher OPS, what's his incentive system on this team.

I can only imagine how frustrating it was for Adams who has been said to be working really hard on his defense to see himself get zero playing time, and watch Andino get all those at bats. And then when they finally decide to bench Andino they go with Davis, who has never logged significant time at 2b for the year.

These decisions don't happen within a vacuum and I think what the O's do with Lee/Vlad will be something the minor league players see. And you never know how they are going to play out. But I will say that I'm frustrated at how much we're willing to pay our respects to the veterans of this team. Maybe I should be more patient but IMO the O's owe Vlad/Lee nothing. They are being paid to do help the team win which is decided at the GM and Managers discretion, and if they get upset over that, they should be DFA'd just like any minor leaguer that would take that attitude.

I'd rather have a system that pushes the younger guys to work hard and reward them with incentives than look at past performances of 35+ year old players.

Vlad did great things with Montreal, with the Angels, and with Texas. How much respect did he get from them when he was seeking a contract this year? He has not done great things with the Os. He deserves respect for what he has done with us and what he might potentially do for us. Right now he has done little for us and with with his obvious decline in abilities it is unlikely he is going to do much for us the rest of the year. The Os don't owe anything to Vlad other than money (and we were the only ones who were willing to give him that this year).

As a fan, I understand where both of you are coming from but if you're in Buck's shoes, in the clubhouse every night staring at an aging HOfer who, while nowhere near his glory years, is still one of your 3 or 4 best hitters on your team it's a little tougher to say go sit the bench. Everyone who said before the season this wasn't a good signing, would take ABs away from younger guys, etc can crow. The O's signed up for this though, they knew Vlad's status as an everyday, middle of the lineup hitter that is closing in on career miletones. Like it or not, they and we ultimately we as fans watching at home, have to show him respect.

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As a fan I understand where both of you are coming from but if your in Buck's shoes, in the clubhouse every night staring at an aging HOfer who, while nowhere near his glory years, is still one of your 3 or 4 best hitters on your team it's a little tougher to say go sit the bench. Everyone who said before the season this wasn't a good signing, would take ABs away from younger guys, etc you can crow. The O's signed up for this though, they knew Vlad's status as an everyday, middle of the lineup hitter that is closing in on career miletones. Like it or not, they and we ultimately we as fans watching at home, have to show him respect.

No, Vlad is currently 7th among Orioles with 50+ PAs in OPS, and it looks for all the world like he's about to be passed by Nick and Lee. It's possible that by mid-July he'll be the 9th-best hitter on the Orioles.

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