Are you considering voting with your feet?

[TGO]

I think the posters on this board could stage an almost more effective poster with their hands.

If the die-hards here and at the MASN boards, The Sun, etc stop discussing the O's... that would send a message similar to the disengagement the casual fans have had with attendance.

Respectfully, Chris, that's baloney. Angelos doesn't give two craps about some message board posters. He doesn't really care about attendance either. I think that much has become clear.

With MASN subscription fees and the MLB shared revenues (online, merchandise, etc) Angelos doesn't need to care about local fans anymore.

Realistically the ONLY thing that could hurt him is telling your cable company you will cancel unless they drop MASN and MASN2. And then DO IT. But enough people have to do it to actually make Comcast et al drop MASN completely and I don't think that's very likely.

[Frobby]

Actually, I am looking forward to next season. The GM thing doesn't matter that much. Buck will acquire the players to make the team better. Matt can run the front office. I look at the players the O's have accumulated and I think their is a good chance for the O's to be much better.

Wieters, Nick, Jones and Hardy all play GG caliber defense. That is the way it used to be in the old days for the O's. This team can hit. Roberts probably comes back. I am think for 50 games but it might be more. Andino is probably a better 2B then Roberts at this point. Buck will acquire a better backup catcher which probably means Wieters not only get more rest he could turn into the clean up hitter.

The pitching was the problem last year. But Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, Hunter, will be better with more innings. I think they will mature. The pen looks like it will be much better, It like the young guys.

I am optimistic about Buck getting Koji back and the O's adding a pitcher from the Far East. I like that the farm system is getting more latin players. Inspite of what people say about MacPhail he really improved the team. Too bad he couldn't stay to see it come together.

The players at Bowie and Frederick will move up to AAA and AAA, That should improve the depth.

This sounds like me on the day pitchers and catchers report. I'm not in wild-eyed optimist mode at the moment. Hopefully I'll find some reason to build towards that between now and February.

[Brendan25]

This sounds like me on the day pitchers and catchers report. I'm not in wild-eyed optimist mode at the moment. Hopefully I'll find some reason to build towards that between now and February.

This. I love being optimistic about this team when spring training begins. I am just nowhere near that point yet.

[TonySoprano]

If Stubhub guy buys an 81 game plan and then I go buy 6 tickets from Peter, paid attendance is 87. If Stubhub guy buys an 81 game plan and then I buy 6 tickets from him, paid attendance is 81. If Stubhub guy buys an 81-game plan and I stay home, paid attendance is still 81. What am I missing?

You're confusing paid attendance with the numbers that go through the turnstiles.

Even if the person buys a ticket and throws the ticket in the garbage and stays away from the game, it's already counted in the attendance total.

By your logic, if the stubhub guy buys the ticket, then you buy it from him, then you give that ticket to a friend, that counts as three tickets. It doesn't matter how many hands are involved in the transaction, it's still one paid ticket in terms of attendance.

Actually, it does make a difference. Angelos already has the revenue from the ticket. There's no taking that from him. If you go on and buy it from Stubhub instead of paying for a ticket at the gate, then that is money that doesn't get to Angelos. In effect, only one ticket is paid for rather than two.

No it doesn't. We agree, Angelos already has the revenue. As I said before, stubhub keeps you from directly giving the money to Pete yourself. But what message does that send, when he already got paid one way or another?

[Frobby]

You're confusing paid attendance with the numbers that go through the turnstiles.

Even if the person buys a ticket and throws the ticket in the garbage and stays away from the game, it's already counted in the attendance total.

By your logic, if the stubhub guy buys the ticket, then you buy it from him, then you give that ticket to a friend, that counts as three tickets. It doesn't matter how many hands are involved in the transaction, it's still one paid ticket in terms of attendance.

No it doesn't. We agree, Angelos already has the revenue. As I said before, stubhub keeps you from directly giving the money to Pete yourself. But what message does that send, when he already got paid one way or another?

We clearly aren't communicating. Angelos clearly sells fewer tickets, and gets less money, if I buy from Stubhub guy rather than from him, so long as Stubhub guy is going to buy his ticket regardless of what I do.

[TonySoprano]

We clearly aren't communicating. Angelos clearly sells fewer tickets if I buy from Stubhub guy rather than from him, so long as Stubhub guy is going to buy his ticket regardless of what I do.

Q:Where is the stubhub guy getting his ticket from? A:Angelos.

[SoBo]

This. I love being optimistic about this team when spring training begins. I am just nowhere near that point yet.

This sounds like me on the day pitchers and catchers report. I'm not in wild-eyed optimist mode at the moment. Hopefully I'll find some reason to build towards that between now and February.

Ditto... I've never been as low as an O's fan than I was in late July. I vowed then to go into show me you want to win mode. But there I was yesterday chatting with an old friend who's a Mets fan and found myself making an argument for the O's being decent this year. But it only took a few threads to bring me back to show me. I'm sure I'll be predicting a .500 season by the end of March. But right now I need to see something dramatic happen in the offseason.

[Frobby]

Q:Where is the stubhub guy getting his ticket from? A:Angelos.

Correct. But if I buy from Stubhub guy, Angelos has still made only one sale, that he was going to make whether I bought Stubhub guy't ticket or not. But if I buy a ticket from Angelos, now he has made two sales -- one to Stubhub guy (who is stuck with his ticket since I won't buy it), and one to me. So buying from Stubhub guy instead of Peter reduces Peter's sales.

[Bosibus]

We have gone from 8-13@$15 game plans with all of us attending in 2003 to now I buy 3-13@$13 gameplans and split it up between 6 people. I turn all the tickets in to the Orioles and just call them up about a week before to get tickets for individual games but sit down in LF ($15) like we did in the past.

In all honesty, I doubt I can get enough people this year and I do not know if I even want to go more than five times total next year. I may just get Baysox and Keys tickets instead.

[Skeletor]

Actually, I am looking forward to next season. The GM thing doesn't matter that much. Buck will acquire the players to make the team better. Matt can run the front office. I look at the players the O's have accumulated and I think their is a good chance for the O's to be much better.

Wieters, Nick, Jones and Hardy all play GG caliber defense. That is the way it used to be in the old days for the O's. This team can hit. Roberts probably comes back. I am think for 50 games but it might be more. Andino is probably a better 2B then Roberts at this point. Buck will acquire a better backup catcher which probably means Wieters not only get more rest he could turn into the clean up hitter.

The pitching was the problem last year. But Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, Hunter, will be better with more innings. I think they will mature. The pen looks like it will be much better, It like the young guys.

I am optimistic about Buck getting Koji back and the O's adding a pitcher from the Far East. I like that the farm system is getting more latin players. Inspite of what people say about MacPhail he really improved the team. Too bad he couldn't stay to see it come together.

The players at Bowie and Frederick will move up to AAA and AAA, That should improve the depth.

Buck will find ways to improve the team. I think the result will be better. I can't speak to you giving up season tickets. I did that four years ago when the O's decided to rebuild. Tickets are really not that big a problem to get and probably will not be for several more seasons.

I've thought this for 14 years and I've been kicked in the nuts every time. It won't happen again.

[Frobby]

Respectfully, Chris, that's baloney. Angelos doesn't give two craps about some message board posters. He doesn't really care about attendance either. I think that much has become clear.

With MASN subscription fees and the MLB shared revenues (online, merchandise, etc) Angelos doesn't need to care about local fans anymore.

He should still care. Regardless of his other sources of profit, better team = higher attendance, higher TV ratings and more interest = more revenue. Obviously he may not want to spend a lot more money in order to create a better team, but doing other things like running an organization the right way are clearly in his financial self-interest.

[CrimsonTribe]

I live too far away to "vote with my feet," but I'm not getting tricked into buying the MLB.tv package again this year. That doesn't affect Angelos directly, but I'm not wasting anymore of my money on this crap.

[wildcard]

Trea, is that you?

Just kidding

Hmmm,,,,,

I actually liked MacPhail. And I am not into paying tons for free agents. Grow your own stars, and the O's are. FAs are complimentary parts IMO.

[TonySoprano]

Correct. But if I buy from Stubhub guy, Angelos has still made only one sale, that he was going to make whether I bought Stubhub guy't ticket or not. But if I buy a ticket from Angelos, now he has made two sales -- one to Stubhub guy (who is stuck with his ticket since I won't buy it), and one to me. So buying from Stubhub guy instead of Peter reduces Peter's sales.

Yes, Pete has only made one sale, and that's what counts toward paid attendance. If you get the ticket from stubhub, or ticketmaster, or your generous brother-in-law, Pete got paid. How is he hurt? At the game, there's only one ass per seat ticket. (double entendre intentional)

Now I could argue that buying from Stubhub actually helps Angelos? Why? Without this outlet to resell tickets, people may think twice about making the original purchase. Therefore, they buy the tickets from Angelos and take on the assumption of risk that someone will want them if they don't.

[Brendan25]

Hmmm,,,,,

I actually liked MacPhail. And I am not into paying tons for free agents. Grow your own stars, and the O's are. FAs are complimentary parts IMO.

I agree with this. I liked MacPhail until some of his decisions over the past two years on the developmental side of things. I think that he has rushed our top prospects through the minor leagues to get them to Baltimore. I think the organization is better now then where it was when he arrived, but I don't think the Orioles could have won with him as GM.