Mussina elected to Orioles Hall of Fame! (Also Dauer and Youse) w/Mussina reaction

[Oriology]

So doing something that's basically illegal but unenforced is the same thing as exercising your free agent rights which is 100% legal is OK?

I"m all for hating the Yankees but to say that joining the Yankees is likened to doing steroids as a reference for "poor decision making" is a thought process I'm incapable of following.

I'm not likening Mussina's choice to doing steroids at any level except they that were both off-field decisions. Off-field decisions affect how you are received by a fan-base/establishment. I never said it was a "poor" decision, just that it was one that severed any good grace he had with the Orioles organization (at least to me, which is why I would prefer he not be in the O's HOF). Steroids are an extreme case, but it seems to me an analogous example of how the off-field decisions that one makes can taint pure statistical accomplishments. Obviously, Mussina did not break any rules of the game, and thus should be considered for the MLB HOF due to his career achievements. However, because of the way he left the Orioles organization, it just rubs me the wrong way to see him in the O's HOF. Team HOF's, especially the Orioles', are so watered down that, to me, they should just be places to recognize those who had a reasonable degree of effectiveness and longevity, but were also beloved by the fans. People can disagree with me on this point, and that's fine, but I simply don't feel like seeing Mussina's face hanging up on that brick wall.

[DuffMan]

But there's still a part of him that just grates on my nerves. I also remember ........ that poster... worked a year as an Oriole apprentice (or whatever they call it...) in the video room. NuclearDish? Anyways... there's such a duality of feeling about Mussina.

Fascinating.

Took some digging, but I found that post! Apparently he told the story in a little more detail at some point to, but here's the one where he summed it up pretty quickly.

I've posted this before, but I'll quickly summarize:

It was the night before the big strike in '94, and I was working the video room. There was a rain delay and more players than normal had congregated in the room. There were about 10 guys, and they were all sitting around discussing the impending strike.

I was most definitely pro-player in the dispute, and I was sitting around listening to the guys talk about how awful the owners were.

Mussina, as you may recall, was the player rep. All the players looked up to him and accepted everything he said as gospel. But he made some kind of overblown comment about the owners that was exaggerated by tens of millions of dollars and made them sound like they were slaveowners. I chimed in with something like, "I'm all for your side, Moose, but that's taking it a little too far."

Mussina's angered response was typical of his ego: "What the f*** do you know? I graduated from Stanford with a degree in economics in 3 and a half years!"

To which I came back with, "Excuse me. I'm graduating from Hopkins with a degree in economics in 3 years!"

The rest of the players oohed and aahed and Moose was completely red-faced and embarrassed. He never spoke another word to me again for as long as I worked there (about 2 more years).

Pretty interesting thread that he posted that one in with a few other great posters who don't post here any more. Check it out if you've got a few minutes.

[Frobby]

I think it is worth noting that this thread has had 10,000 views in just about 24 hours, and the 210 people who have responded is the highest total of any poll conducted on this site in 2012. Clearly, people are still very passionate about their views on Moose, even after 11 years.

[beaner]

I think it is worth noting that this thread has had 10,000 views in just about 24 hours, and the 210 people who have responded is the highest total of any poll conducted on this site in 2012. Clearly, people are still very passionate about their views on Moose, even after 11 years.

I'd say the results speak for themselves. Kudos!

[Il BuonO]

Really...can you tell Moose I said hi the next time you talk to him for me, since you know how he thinks or feels. I mean now we're casting psycho analysis on a guy? I think deep down he wishes the O's were a smarter, better run team, that he got a good offer to stay and that he played his whole career here and won a World Series here. I think looking back to his career he wouldn't have wanted anything more than to help make the O's a winning team and be loved and respected by the fans for doing that.

I just think a lot of the anger directed towards Mussina should be redirected at Angelo$. Let's applaud the guy who gave the O's the best 10 years a starting pitcher has since he's been here. And bash the guy who didn't treat him like the elite pitcher you build a franchise around rather than just another function of creating a profitable team regardless of outcome.

Absolutely. Think how the fortunes of the franchise may have been changed if Angelo$er had actually started the negotiations with his final offer and never let the Yankees come into view. There's some misdirected anger here. We have plenty to go on with Angelo$er's character running this team over the years, but did Mussina have reputation as a greedy, self-serving individual in his time with the Orioles? No, he took less money, less years and got called out for it by the players union.

It would be appropriate if after all the years of losing he's brought to the fans of Baltimore, Angelo$er had to go before a group of owners and explain why he is fit to continue running the team.

[Gofannon]

This [day] is such a fascinating drama! Personally I've gotten over it. Moose was a great pitcher for us for 10 years. God I loved watching him pitch! I even charted some of his games. Made blank sheets at work on AutoCAD to do it.

But there's still a part of him that just grates on my nerves. I also remember ........ that poster... worked a year as an Oriole apprentice (or whatever they call it...) in the video room. NuclearDish? Anyways... there's such a duality of feeling about Mussina.

]

I remember Phil Wood talking about Mike Mussina once and saying that Mussina was a good teammate, but he still wanted to make sure everyone knew he should be your lifeline if you were ever on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.

I mean, the dude was in a movie about crossword aficionados (and I had to look up how to spell aficionados). How many players could say (or would want to say) that?

[TonySoprano]

I think it is worth noting that this thread has had 10,000 views in just about 24 hours, and the 210 people who have responded is the highest total of any poll conducted on this site in 2012. Clearly, people are still very passionate about their views on Moose, even after 11 years.

Moose may end up the way of politics discussion on this board.

[crissfan172]

It's interesting to see people argue over the inevitable. I don't think there was ever a doubt that Mussina would get into the O's HOF. The interesting debate...well to me at least...is whether or not they retire his number when he gets into the MLB HOF.

[Dipper9]

It's interesting to see people argue over the inevitable. I don't think there was ever a doubt that Mussina would get into the O's HOF. The interesting debate...well to me at least...is whether or not they retire his number when he gets into the MLB HOF.

Based on the reason why Moose left, being the same reason that we've lose for 14 straight years, being the same guy who still owns the team, it was FAR from a given that Moose would get in while Peter still owned the team.

[Can_of_corn]

It's interesting to see people argue over the inevitable. I don't think there was ever a doubt that Mussina would get into the O's HOF. The interesting debate...well to me at least...is whether or not they retire his number when he gets into the MLB HOF.

The only folks with retired numbers are those that went into the HOF with an Orioles hat on.

[ccbird]

Stories are just pouring into 105.7 The Fan about how big of an ahole he really was to fans and people in Baltimore. They were hoping to hear a good story but it never happened haha.

I don't care how big of a jerk he was to people in Baltimore he deserves to be in the O's HOF for his accomplishments in an O's uniform. Also, not to get to off topic, the more lenient the O's got with their HOF selections the more of a joke it became with Mussina not included.

[TonySoprano]

Melewski weighs in on the local Mussina debate.

I have to admit to some surprise to see the degree to which the bitterness over Mussina becoming a Yankee still exists for many fans.

[El Gordo]

Melewski weighs in on the local Mussina debate.

Did Melewski expect it to be unanimous? 16% is pretty small IMO. What was the % opposed to Bordick. And just wait till Melmo gets in.

[DrungoHazewood]

Also, not to get to off topic, the more lenient the O's got with their HOF selections the more of a joke it became with Mussina not included.

By my count there's 43 or 44 players in the O's HOF for their playing accomplishments.

There have been 72 O's position players who appeared in 400 or more games.

There have been 33 pitchers who started at least 70 games for the O's.

And there have been 39 players who were primarily relievers who pitched in 100+ games.

So, just swagging it, it looks like about 30% of all Orioles who were at least regulars for a few years have gone into the O's Hall of Fame. If you applied that standard to the Cooperstown Hall there would be somewhere north of 1000 players in the Hall. There are currently 297, including 55 non-players. So the O's Hall is about 1/4 as difficult to get into as the real Hall, which is about right since the bottom tier of the O's is around 10 WAR, and the bottom tier of the real one is around 40 WAR.

[Goop]

Knuckle curve.

So does that make it a "Moose knuckle" curve?