Are we trying to get too much pitching?

[Sports Guy]

If you've got a 140+ IQ and great intuition, read, common sense like Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux, you probably don't need a pitching coach. Believe it or not, most athletes aren't brain surgeons. I'm not trying to say they're stupid either, but it takes a fair amount of brain power and other characteristics to diagnose what it is going on when you pitch. It is really similar to a golf swing IMO. Hitting mechanics are much, much simpler than pitching mechanics. Hitting thought process is much, much simpler than pitching thought process.

I'll give more detail in my response.

I just get tired of every sport having 100 different coaches.

These guys are the best in the world for a reason.

[tennOsfan]

Perhaps you can explain something to me.....Why in the world do these guys need coaches at this level?

And i guess more specifically, why do they need them after they have been around for a while?

I mean, they have been doing this their whole lives...I know there is always stuff to learn but you hear a pitcher gets out of whack with his mechanics a lot...Why does that happen?

Why does Tiger Woods need an instructor? It's a different line of work, but a good analogy, I think. You can slip into bad habits and not realize you're doing it.

[Sports Guy]

Why does Tiger Woods need an instructor? It's a different line of work, but a good analogy, I think. You can slip into bad habits and not realize you're doing it.

See for me, I think more can go wrong with a golf swing.

But yea, you are right. You definitely can do it without noticing it.

[Mackus]

See for me, I think more can go wrong with a golf swing.

But yea, you are right. You definitely can do it without noticing it.

The margin for error might be less with a golf swing, but there are far fewer moving parts.

[Sports Guy]

The margin for error might be less with a golf swing, but there are far fewer moving parts.

Not if you have MY golf swing.

[Greg Pappas]

We got 3 pitchers in the Stros deal and now BB is saying we are throwing around Adam Jones and 3 pitchers from the M's.

Why so much emphasis on pitching?

This team has got to get more positional talent.

It is an absolute must.

Plus, the pitching they are targeting isn't even top pitching.

I am not saying that AM is going to make the deal for Bedard like BB is saying...I am just saying that for what we are hearing, there isn't enough positional talent coming back.

If Pie is out of a Cubs deal, they really don't have much in terms of real positional talent...And that's fine...A deal headlined by Gallagher and Veal is fine. Although, as has been said, we need to see if the Rockies are interested in BRob.

Bedard is the guy...That is the trade we need to gbet at least 2 position players back and maybe even 3.

I just hope the Dodgers are still in on Bedard.

I agree with this post outright. We are good in the young pitching department and still weak overall in positional prospects.

[Mackus]

Not if you have MY golf swing.

Then I'd suggest perhaps switching to a slide step instead of the big leg kick. Might simplify things.

[longflyball]

I would hate to see Bedard traded for a stud pitcher who never reaches his potential because his arm falls off. Pitchers quite frequently have their careers derailed by arm injuries. Hitting prospects don't carry this risk.

If you are going to trade a player the caliber of Bedard, you need as close as you can get to a guarantee in return. I don't think you should take the risk that the value you get in return is wiped out by injury. A hitting prospect may fail to pan out, but you can be almost certain that it won't be because of injury. For this reason, I would prefer that hitting prospects form the foundation of a Bedard deal.

[Palmer Esque]

I pitched in college, and in my time there, we went through two different pitching coaches, and let me tell you, it was like night and day. In addition to what VaTech was saying, the really smart pitchers probably dont need PC's, however, even though these guys are the best athletes in the world, pitching is all about making adjustments and tinkering with your mechanics. These guys need to be reminded of this and have someone looking over them whether it be in the game, or even in the bullpen. While alot of pitching is physical, however, based on my own experience, the difference when all things were equal like god giving ability, conditioning, etc, is the mental side of things. PC's are part instruction and part psychologists. For me, the best pitching coach was always the one combined the mental and cerebral approach with the physicality and the mechanical side of things. But believe me, pitching coaches are a must, and the methodology and instruction does vary greatly from coach to coach, there is not just some magical formula that works for everyone.

[RShack]

I pitched in college, and in my time there, we went through two different pitching coaches, and let me tell you, it was like night and day. In addition to what VaTech was saying, the really smart pitchers probably dont need PC's, however, even though these guys are the best athletes in the world, pitching is all about making adjustments and tinkering with your mechanics. These guys need to be reminded of this and have someone looking over them whether it be in the game, or even in the bullpen. While alot of pitching is physical, however, based on my own experience, the difference when all things were equal like god giving ability, conditioning, etc, is the mental side of things. PC's are part instruction and part psychologists. For me, the best pitching coach was always the one combined the mental and cerebral approach with the physicality and the mechanical side of things. But believe me, pitching coaches are a must, and the methodology and instruction does vary greatly from coach to coach, there is not just some magical formula that works for everyone.

I'm sure that the mental side of it is huge. I'm sure there's lotsa different approaches to that, and that different ones work best for different people. I don't believe that there is any "1 size fits all" answer about that. I was mainly talking about mechanics. AFAIK, there are many things about mechanics that are not highly debatable. AFAIK, there are some mechanical flaws that everybody would agree are mechanical flaws. I would think that all the P-coaches in the org could and should be on the same page about those things. I think it's fine for different P-coaches to have different approaches to being the swami that helps put a kid over the top. But while they're doing that, they should also be making sure the kid isn't habitually making the same blatant mistakes again and again. I wouldn't want to have a system where a P-coach is afraid of slowing down a kid's progress by fixing his mechanics. I'd want a system where a P-coach is rewarded for fixing a kid's mechanics.

[RShack]

If you've got a 140+ IQ and great intuition, read, common sense like Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux, you probably don't need a pitching coach.

And video? I would guess that having cheap everyday video is a huge help to a pitcher, simple because it lets him actually see what he's doing.

I heard Kevin Kennedy saying this was true for hitters. He said that when he was in the Oriole minors, he'd always have coaches trying to tell him what he was doing wrong with his swing. They'd describe stuff to him, talking about his hips or whatever, and then they'd say "See?". Kennedy said he went along with it, but he really didn't "see" at all. He said that half the time, he really had no friggin' idea what they were talking about. He said video changes all that, if you just use it right. I don't know, but that sure makes sense to me. I'd think it'd be true for P's too. If I can see it on my TV, I figure it could help them a lot too. A picture's worth 1000 words, etc.

[RShack]

I just get tired of every sport having 100 different coaches.

These guys are the best in the world for a reason.

Yeah, but what's the reason that a P progresses up through the minors? Seems to me that some guys get pretty far because their talent overcomes whatever flaws they have. Seems to me that some guys get to their first MLB game despite the fact that they've been doing stuff wrong forever. I might be mistaken, but I get the impression that if a kid can throw K's, then nobody wants to rock the boat by messing with what he's doing. Then, eventually, he gets to a level where it catches up to him. Isn't that at least one part of what we saw with Liz last summer?

[DiggetyDon]

In this division I think its pretty clear that if you are going to survive you have to have strong pitching.

The jays have it, the sox and yanks have it and believe it or not, the Rays just might have more of it than we do.

The Rays are going to be scary in a year or so, they already have Kazmir/Shields/Garza and waiting in the wings they have Jacob McGee, Wade Davis, David Price in the top 20 mlb prospects, plus Longoria at 3b, they are going to be nasty.

Our last trade netted us 3 arms, 2 being good possible rotation candidates. We can build an elite pitching staff off of the arms we acquire in these trades plus what we already have.

The proposed Reds trades have us getting Bailey, Dodgers, Kershaw, these are the types of players we are going to build a playoff contender around.

Our bullpen already has the making of some fantastic arms and we may acquire a few more.

Our best chance at becoming a powerhouse is building an elite pitching staff and surrounding it with superb defense and clutch hitting. In this division I think thats our best chance.

Even before more trades spring training looks to be exciting, you have a group of guys:

Guthrie

Loewen

Cabrera

Olson

Liz

Patton

Albers

Maybe Penn

All of them going at it for rotation spots, with Guthrie/Loewen maybe being the only true guarantees.

Throw in a Bailey or Kershaw and you have some strong potential and not to mention the most young pitching depth we have had in a long time.

Our offense has to be capable, but it doesnt have to be murderers row, when playoff time comes as we all see, pitching rules the game.

Pitching and defense folks, hard nosed gritty play, thats how I envision an excellent O's team in this division.

[TinCup]

Our offense has to be capable, but it doesnt have to be murderers row, when playoff time comes as we all see, pitching rules the game.

Pitching and defense folks, hard nosed gritty play, thats how I envision an excellent O's team in this division.

I have no major issue with your views though I would ask you about are offense? I mean, at present, it is far from even being quote capable unquote. We need more positional talent as well!!!

[DiggetyDon]

I have no major issue with your views though I would ask you about are offense? I mean, at present, it is far from even being quote capable unquote. We need more positional talent as well!!!

I honestly think we have made a great effort in drafting and the fruits of the positional talent will be coming into play when we have everything together, not to mention the guys we get back in trades.