Are we trying to get too much pitching?

[Palmer Esque]

Sportsguy, i agree 100% our positional depth is sickening, and we should definately strengthen it, but without solid starters and bulldogs out there on the mind, it will be a moot point. I just think stockpiling young arms is the way to go. After watching almost every game, every night my lasting impression of the game felt like the movie Groundhog day...we were just sending guys out there to the mound who had absolutely no business being there....over and over and over again

[erb8472]

Well hopefully we'd be able to move at least three of Millar, Huff, Mora, and Payton.

I think one reason we are stockpiling all this pitching is that you will never be able to out hit the offenses of the Sox or Yanks, however you can slow down their offenses with good pitching.

[Camden_yardbird]

Young pitching is THE most valuable asset an organizion can have. The FA market shows the value of even mediocre pitching. We can't have enough.

[El Gordo]

We got 3 pitchers in the Stros deal and now BB is saying we are throwing around Adam Jones and 3 pitchers from the M's.

Why so much emphasis on pitching?

This team has got to get more positional talent.

It is an absolute must.

Plus, the pitching they are targeting isn't even top pitching.

I am not saying that AM is going to make the deal for Bedard like BB is saying...I am just saying that for what we are hearing, there isn't enough positional talent coming back.

If Pie is out of a Cubs deal, they really don't have much in terms of real positional talent...And that's fine...A deal headlined by Gallagher and Veal is fine. Although, as has been said, we need to see if the Rockies are interested in BRob.

Bedard is the guy...That is the trade we need to gbet at least 2 position players back and maybe even 3.

I just hope the Dodgers are still in on Bedard.

MacP on XM just said no matter how carefully you evaluate your pitching, it's so iffy that to get 10 solid ML pitchers you need at least 25 stacked up in the system. So that's his point of view on the matter.

[clapdiddy]

OK...new Reds proposal...

How about Bedard for Cueto, Votto, Encarnacion, and Maloney?

[Sports Guy]

It looks like no one was offering blue chip prospects for Tejada & Roberts. AM did the next best thing with Tejada. He might do the same with BRob. With Bedard, he has the right bait to catch some blue chippers.

Right...I tend to agree with this although I think shopping BRob to other teams but the Cubs should be happening.

But with Bedard, we can't get one positon player and 3 OK pitchers.

[Sports Guy]

I think we're just targetting the best players from each team. Beyond Jones and Clement (who we don't really need, we'd have to get him and flip him) Seattle's best players are mostly pitchers.

Which would be fine...I bet TB would give up Brignac for him.

[El Gordo]

Right...I tend to agree with this although I think shopping BRob to other teams but the Cubs should be happening.

But with Bedard, we can't get one positon player and 3 OK pitchers.

This is why I like Votto, Cueto and Hamilton from the Reds. That leaves us with SS the only position that doesn't have talent in the pipe line and we haven't traaded BRob yet.

[Stevo5278]

We've still got enough dreck to clear to make room for them. Nobody would miss Fio, Fahey or Luis Hernandez.

Guys we could DFA and I wouldn't lose sleep:

F. Cabrera

Cherry

Deza

Fahey

Fiorentino

Gibbons

Hernandez

J. Johnson

Leicester

Payton

Quiroz

Redman

Bottom line is that whether by outright release, trade, or passing through waivers to AAA, there is plenty of fat that can be trimmed off this roster still.

[mweb]

Yes, McPhail should be targeting more position talent. I think 3 of the top 4 players we get back for Bedard and Roberts should be hitters.

[Baltimoron]

Young pitching is THE most valuable asset an organizion can have. The FA market shows the value of even mediocre pitching. We can't have enough.

Young positional players are far more valuable. The market is simply irrational and team's overpay for free agent pitching, largely becuase they underestimate the risk posed by pitchers and the inherent variance in their results.

Positional players contribute more, can be more reasonably projected (pitching is more variable and more subject to exogenous stuff like park and defense), and pitchers get hurt more and otherwise tend to have shorter peaks.

The facts team's always need/want/look for more young pitching is evidence of the fact that investing in pitching is a high risk endeavor a surplus is preferred.

[Sports Guy]

All we have for the future, if everything pans out is Reimold, Wieters, Rowell and Markakis.

Markakis is a sure thing.

Wieters is probably close to a sure thing as you get.

Rowell has great upside but is obviously very far away and is very young...You never know what you are going to get from him.

Reimold is a wild card because of health.

That's it folks.

That ain't much...We are talking 1 sure thing, 1 almost and 2 big maybes.

That doesn't exactly warm the heart.

We have neglected positional talent for the last 10 years.

Everyone on here has always said, "you can never have too much pitching"..."Pitching wins championships"..."Pitching is a valuable commodity...you can always trade it".

Where has this strategy gotten us?

You need balance....We have no balance.

[mhd24]

All we have for the future, if everything pans out is Reimold, Wieters, Rowell and Markakis.

Markakis is a sure thing.

Wieters is probably close to a sure thing as you get.

Rowell has great upside but is obviously very far away and is very young...You never know what you are going to get from him.

Reimold is a wild card because of health.

That's it folks.

That ain't much...We are talking 1 sure thing, 1 almost and 2 big maybes.

That doesn't exactly warm the heart.

We have neglected positional talent for the last 10 years.

Everyone on here has always said, "you can never have too much pitching"..."Pitching wins championships"..."Pitching is a valuable commodity...you can always trade it".

Where has this strategy gotten us?

You need balance....We have no balance.

Perhaps you should add Snyder to that list SG. He was awfully impressive in the HI league. Also, we'll likely get either Smoak or Alvarez in the upcoming draft (two ready made college bats).

[SteveA]

We got 3 pitchers in the Stros deal and now BB is saying we are throwing around Adam Jones and 3 pitchers from the M's.

Why so much emphasis on pitching?

This team has got to get more positional talent.

It is an absolute must.

Plus, the pitching they are targeting isn't even top pitching.

I am not saying that AM is going to make the deal for Bedard like BB is saying...I am just saying that for what we are hearing, there isn't enough positional talent coming back.

If Pie is out of a Cubs deal, they really don't have much in terms of real positional talent...And that's fine...A deal headlined by Gallagher and Veal is fine. Although, as has been said, we need to see if the Rockies are interested in BRob.

Bedard is the guy...That is the trade we need to gbet at least 2 position players back and maybe even 3.

I just hope the Dodgers are still in on Bedard.

You're absoutely correct, we need to get some significant position players back in the next couple of deals.

I think part of the philosophy is you can stockpile "B" and "C" pitching prospects and odds are good that you can find one out of the bunch that hits or even exceeds their alleged upside. You can't stockpile hitters as much...prospects need to get at-bats so you can only have one 3rd baseman at Norfolk and one at Bowie. Same for every other position. You really have to concentrate on the "can't miss" guys (even though they can, of course, miss!). But it's tough to pry those guys out of organizations. When people talk about the great veteran-for-prospects deals they usually brought pitching (Doyle Alexander for Smoltz, Pierzynski for pitching, etc). Only a few of those deals brougt a real supertar (Hanley Ramirez comes to mind. And Boston had to take on Lowell (thought to be a big burden) to make that happen. So we need some "A" prospect hitters and we may be find, as with Pie, that teams are very reluctant to give them up.

[Sports Guy]

Perhaps you should add Snyder to that list SG. He was awfully impressive in the HI league. Also, we'll likely get either Smoak or Alvarez in the upcoming draft (two ready made college bats).

Synder needs to stay healthy and take that next step and show that his bat is enough for first base.

We aren't guaranteed anything in the draft, so I wouldn't count on that right now.