ESPN: Roberts Will Be in Report

[UMDTerrapins]

I remember a game program a few years ago having an article about Gibbons and Roberts and their training at a facility called "Athletes in Motion" or something like that. Detailed their offseason conditioning program there, with other major leaguers. Just curious if any of those guys ended up on the list or if this program/facility was totally unrelated to their drug use.

Anyhow....I'm sad because I really like Roberts on the field and off. To me he's an example of how even good people in the sport can be tempted to stretch the boundaries of fairness in order to make it in the majors. Keep in mind that he's not a guy like Bonds who had a solid ML career ahead of him regardless of his "cheating". He was a good minor league prospect who changed positions when he hit the majors, and battled for a job with another guy at second base, who was also using performance enhancing drugs to get ahead. Roberts doesn't need any help today, he's a professional hitter and fielder who plays at a very high level. But he was really fighting to earn a job when he turned to these substances. But his story to me, is an example of how the people who have used these advantages to find a career in the majors, aren't by their sole involvement in the scandal, evil people.

Just a bummer of a day for baseball, and for the Orioles. Luckily and sadly though, we've been well primed for this day.

[wickedwitch]

Brian Roberts

Brian Roberts is an infielder who has played for the Baltimore Orioles since 2001.

He has been selected to two All-Star teams.

Roberts and Larry Bigbie were both rookies in 2001. According to Bigbie, both

he and Roberts lived in Segui’s house in the Baltimore area during the latter part of that season.

When Bigbie and Segui used steroids in the house, Roberts did not participate.

According to Bigbie, however, in 2004 Roberts admitted to him that he had

injected himself once or twice with steroids in 2003. Until this admission, Bigbie had never

suspected Roberts of using steroids.

In order to provide Roberts with information about these allegations and to give

him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.

This is directly from the report.

If this is all they have on him, he should not even get a suspension.

[Lucky Jim]

First of all, as I'm sure you all have noticed, Cindy and I are very different people so I won't speak for her or any other fan of the female persuasion who happens to appreciate Brian for more than just his baseball skills.

For myself, I'm not at all surprised to hear that his name is mentioned. We'll have to wait and see what exactly he is accused of and how strong the evidence is. If it's one or two orders of HGH, I don't care in the least. If it was HGH and steroids over a long period, I'll be a little sad but not shocked since I think the majority of players at least tried something similar and the entire atmosphere around them told them it was desirable. If anything, I'll just be mad that my favorite player, who I do think is basically a very good guy compared to the average professional athlete, is getting called out for something a whole, whole lot of people did.

Frankly, as I've stated before, I'm not going to condemn anybody for having used PEDs of any kind. I can sympathize that players were under a lot of pressure. In Brian's case, he was locked in a battle with Jerry Hairston for a job, Hairston may have been using, and his boss at the time (Mike Hargrove) kept saying publicly that he questioned whether Brian had the stamina or was big enough to be a major league regular. I don't think it's this simple thing about money that a lot of fans make it out to be. I think it's about being faced with having to give up a dream that in many cases a player has had since he was a tiny child and defined himself by for years.

So in conclusion, I'm sad that MLB had this problem and Brian was apparently associated with it, I'm angry that he's getting screwed more than many others who undoubtedly did as much or more, and I feel kind of bad for everybody involved because I think the public humiliation here is way disproportionate to the crime.

Well, you've condemned other folks for a lot less. This is interesting spin. And I don't mean spin in a bad way - in fact, I agree that there are personal variables that complicate any absolutist or Manichean take on the issue.

In fact, in one of the original "Hangouter Articles" I posted an article on Steroids and Baseball that pointed out the cost-benefit analysis inherent in making the decision. I pointed out that the likely players to do it were "fringe" major leaguers, injured players, older players, and very good players who wanted to elevate to superstardom. I feel at least partly vindicated by the "grab bag" of players in the report.

As for Roberts - he's got a lot of heart. But Hargrove was right - he was fringe-y due to his size and stamina and that may well have been the impetus behind what he did. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. On the other hand, I can't exonerate him, and I can't say that I think he's being singled-out.

On the one-hand, you're decrying that the lack of hard evidence so far against Brian. On the other, you're rationalizing what he did with a warrantless and wholly unsubstantiated assumption that many many many others did it. We simply don't know. But I don't think you can have it both ways.

[blueberryale77]

I remember a game program a few years ago having an article about Gibbons and Roberts and their training at a facility called "Athletes in Motion" or something like that. Detailed their offseason conditioning program there, with other major leaguers. Just curious if any of those guys ended up on the list or if this program/facility was totally unrelated to their drug use.

Anyhow....I'm sad because I really like Roberts on the field and off. To me he's an example of how even good people in the sport can be tempted to stretch the boundaries of fairness in order to make it in the majors. Keep in mind that he's not a guy like Bonds who had a solid ML career ahead of him regardless of his "cheating". He was a good minor league prospect who changed positions when he hit the majors, and battled for a job with another guy at second base, who was also using performance enhancing drugs to get ahead. Roberts doesn't need any help today, he's a professional hitter and fielder who plays at a very high level. But he was really fighting to earn a job when he turned to these substances. But his story to me, is an example of how the people who have used these advantages to find a career in the majors, aren't by their sole involvement in the scandal, evil people.

Just a bummer of a day for baseball, and for the Orioles. Luckily and sadly though, we've been well primed for this day.

Even if what Bigbie says is true, all it says is that he told Bigbie he had injected himself a couple of times in 2003. There is no actual evidence against him. It's just another rumor, and should not have been enough to be included in the report. At the very least, it's nowhere near enough to lead to any punishment. It'll be interesting to see how Brian responds to this. Clearly Mitchell's people must have thoroughly investigated his activities and not found a paper trail, so I would say it's likely that his use was limited to a little experimentation early on. Since 2003 is beyond the statute of limitations for drug posession and appears to be for MLB punishment as well, maybe he will 'fess up and say "I was young, stupid, and frustrated, and I experimented with something I shouldn't have..." Either way, this doesn't seem like a big deal except for the irresponsibility of Mitchell in including such things and the rattiness of Bigbie.

[blueberryale77]

On the one-hand, you're decrying that the lack of hard evidence so far against Brian. On the other, you're rationalizing what he did with a warrantless and wholly unsubstantiated assumption that many many many others did it. We simply don't know. But I don't think you can have it both ways.

Sure you can use both of those arguments. First, there is no evidence. Second, if evidence materializes (which it still hasn't), I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's also not warrantless to say that many many other players used. We don't know if it was 15% or 75%, but we know it was a lot. You've got to figure that for every guy Mitchell caught or got someone to rat on, there are quite a few others who were careful about their illegal transactions and weren't friends with Larry Bigbie.

[Lucky Jim]

Even if what Bigbie says is true, all it says is that he told Bigbie he had injected himself a couple of times in 2003. There is no actual evidence against him. It's just another rumor, and should not have been enough to be included in the report. At the very least, it's nowhere near enough to lead to any punishment. It'll be interesting to see how Brian responds to this. Clearly Mitchell's people must have thoroughly investigated his activities and not found a paper trail, so I would say it's likely that his use was limited to a little experimentation early on. Since 2003 is beyond the statute of limitations for drug posession and appears to be for MLB punishment as well, maybe he will 'fess up and say "I was young, stupid, and frustrated, and I experimented with something I shouldn't have..." Either way, this doesn't seem like a big deal except for the irresponsibility of Mitchell in including such things and the rattiness of Bigbie.

I'm actually glad to see that Roberts is only briefly mentioned. And hearsay evidence of use "once or twice" prior to 2005 is - literally - nothing.

Now, it doesn't prove or disprove (he could simply have been more secretive about it, not trusted Segui and Bigbie, etc.) anything. But it lightens my mood a bit.

[blueberryale77]

I'm actually glad to see that Roberts is only briefly mentioned. And hearsay evidence of use "once or twice" prior to 2005 is - literally - nothing.

Now, it doesn't prove or disprove (he could simply have been more secretive about it, not trusted Segui and Bigbie, etc.) anything. But it lightens my mood a bit.

Exactly. I'm relieved that there is no evidence, no chance of a suspension. I am however disgusted with Mitchell for printing rumors an innuendo instead of sticking to bona fide proof and with Larry Bigbie for selling out a long time friend. I think the biggest lesson here is, sadly, to trust no one.

[UMDTerrapins]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that if the information was untrue, there would have been no reasonable explanation why Roberts would NOT cooperate with the investigation and meet with Mitchell. I don't feel that it's unfair to accept that Roberts did in fact use steroids.

[blueberryale77]

This is directly from the report.

If this is all they have on him, he should not even get a suspension.

Thank you for posting that. My acrobat wouldn't allow me to copy and paste. He can't possibly be suspended. He should not be in the report at all since they failed to find anything resembling evidence.

[Lucky Jim]

Sure you can use both of those arguments. First, there is no evidence. Second, if evidence materializes (which it still hasn't), I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's also not warrantless to say that many many other players used. We don't know if it was 15% or 75%, but we know it was a lot. You've got to figure that for every guy Mitchell caught or got someone to rat on, there are quite a few others who were careful about their illegal transactions and weren't friends with Larry Bigbie.

I'm sure you think that these arguments are logically consistent. I don't. The fact is, you take the absence of evidence as a means of mitigating the damage to Brian's reputation. Then you make an assertion - also to mitigate the damage to Brian's reputation - that's utterly unsubstantiated. If I were to try to frame an argument that way in a brief I'd be killed by even the lousiest opposing attorney. And that's ignoring the underlying thing - which is that you're blowing off the fact that he might have done something because others did it too. But plenty of people cheat on their taxes. I doubt you get pangs of empathy each time one gets busted. And I can almost guarantee that if it's someone you didn't like, you'd be offering it as evidence to some character flaw.

We can disagree on this all day, likely - but I don't think it's a big deal. In the end, we should both be happy that his presence in the report is minimal. I'm a fan of Roberts. Not quite like you (thankfully!) but a fan nonetheless...whether he's an Oriole or not.

[Witchy_Chick]

Even if what Bigbie says is true, all it says is that he told Bigbie he had injected himself a couple of times in 2003. There is no actual evidence against him. It's just another rumor, and should not have been enough to be included in the report. At the very least, it's nowhere near enough to lead to any punishment. It'll be interesting to see how Brian responds to this. Clearly Mitchell's people must have thoroughly investigated his activities and not found a paper trail, so I would say it's likely that his use was limited to a little experimentation early on. Since 2003 is beyond the statute of limitations for drug posession and appears to be for MLB punishment as well, maybe he will 'fess up and say "I was young, stupid, and frustrated, and I experimented with something I shouldn't have..." Either way, this doesn't seem like a big deal except for the irresponsibility of Mitchell in including such things and the rattiness of Bigbie.

Brian had a chance to "respond to this" by meeting with Mitchell during the investigation and declined to do so.

Witchy

[blueberryale77]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that if the information was untrue, there would have been no reasonable explanation why Roberts would NOT cooperate with the investigation and meet with Mitchell. I don't feel that it's unfair to accept that Roberts did in fact use steroids.

There's a very good reason. Jay Gibbons was using. Miguel Tejada was using. These are people who are like brothers to him. Maybe he just didn't want to be put in a position like Bigbie where he was pressured to rat out his friends. Not a single player who was accused met with Mitchell. The union advised them not to. There's also a powerful comradery among players. Obviously, Bigbie didn't place too much value on that, but maybe Roberts did. Even if what Bigbie says was true, he only did it a couple of times and started years after he was first exposed to it. If he's guilty of what Bigbie says, it's really no big deal. But there's no proof he is.

[glenn__davis]

Actually, am I the only one who's opinion of Roberts is actually higher now?

I had half-assumed all along that he had been on it for a short while. But if he didn't participate with Segui and Bigbie and only did it "once or twice," I'm pretty impressed with the guy.

[HeatherC12]

Actually, am I the only one who's opinion of Roberts is actually higher now?

I had half-assumed all along that he had been on it for a short while. But if he didn't participate with Segui and Bigbie and only did it "once or twice," I'm pretty impressed with the guy.

I was actually just thinking the same thing. To be around a lot of guys who were using in some capacity and yet only have a couple of instances like four or five years ago where you tried it yourself is pretty interesting and impressive. Peer pressure can eat people alive. Someone in another post said something about this being like someone trying pot in college and I tend to agree with that statement. One or two times does not make him a 'steroid abuser'. My opinion of him hasn't really changed very much from the 'evidence'. I too am wondering what Brian will say about all this stuff.

[square634]

Actually, am I the only one who's opinion of Roberts is actually higher now?

I had half-assumed all along that he had been on it for a short while. But if he didn't participate with Segui and Bigbie and only did it "once or twice," I'm pretty impressed with the guy.

I agree with you. If he was living with Segui and Bigbie, he knew that his teammates (guys he was competing with for playing time to establish himself as a major leaguer) were using. And he still didn't participate with them.