One question: Why do we talk of trading Tejada?

[El Gordo]

Thank you. That's why I'm not a big fan of trading proven high quality players for prospects. Even the best prospects regularly fail, others hang around a few years never establishing themselves and others become league average type players. You hear about the trades where the prospect becomes a big star but most of the time it just doesn't happen and you have given away proven quality for unfulfilled potential.

Sometime ago someone posted a list of the top rated 100 prospects of the past few years. 10 were impact players currently, 30 somthing total had had a cup of coffee.The rest were history. So for me the odds seem to be 1 in 10 impact player, 1 in 3 cup of coffee.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Actually, thinking Aybar and Santana for Tejada is idotic is the idiotic thing.

You may not want to do that trade but it is a very fair offer. I think we could pry Kotchman out of them if other things don't work out but that is a fair offer.

No it's not.

Santana is a good young pitcher, but his stats say he can't pitch on the road. Aybar is a quality shortstop prospect, but those two are not enough for a player like Tejada.

[Sports Guy]

No it's not.

Santana is a good young pitcher, but his stats say he can't pitch on the road. Aybar is a quality shortstop prospect, but those two are not enough for a player like Tejada.

Well, Markakis had a 717 OPS on the road last year..Guess he can't hit?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=6478

[bigloe]

Actually, thinking Aybar and Santana for Tejada is idotic is the idiotic thing.

You may not want to do that trade but it is a very fair offer. I think we could pry Kotchman out of them if other things don't work out but that is a fair offer.

When will Kotchman's name stop being brought up? He didn't play very much this year and has limited sucess in 3 stints with the Angels. We need somebody that isn't such a question mark.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well, Markakis had a 717 OPS on the road last year..Guess he can't hit?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=6478

Change "road" to "outside Anaheim Stadium".

We know Markakis can hit here.

[Baroquen131]

Ah... sounds like this thread is about to get derailed about hypothetical details.

Again, in my eyes, it's pretty simple. We're not closing to winning the WS. Tejada has a lot of value now, and will probably have less value as time wears on.

If you can improve the team for the future, by trading him, in the right deal, I say you do it. Keeping him, making minor moves, and crossing our collective fingers, will probably result in a 10th losing season. (Keeping him, making major moves, and becoming a playoff team doesn't seem like something this team is capable of doing, especially this offeason).

It's not a sentimental thing. It's a practical thing.

[El Gordo]

Actually, thinking Aybar and Santana for Tejada is idotic is the idiotic thing.

You may not want to do that trade but it is a very fair offer. I think we could pry Kotchman out of them if other things don't work out but that is a fair offer.

I would think a reluctance to trade an AS top 10 player for a promising young pitcher who seems to have trouble keeping his ERA under 6.00 anywhere but Anahiem and a flashy but error prone SS who gets caught stealing 1/3 of the time and will be lucky to post 740 OPS in the Majors is prudence. I would think calling someone who disagrees with your appraisal of a player, "idiotic" is boorish and childish.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I would think a reluctance to trade an AS top 10 player for a promising young pitcher who seems to have trouble keeping his ERA under 6.00 anywhere but Anahiem and a flashy but error prone SS who gets caught stealing 1/3 of the time and will be lucky to post 740 OPS in the Majors is prudence.

THIS part I agree with

I wouldn't have a problem with these guys being part of a deal, but if we're going to make them the centerpiece we might as well take Orlando Cabrera and Chone Figgons, because at least we know what we're getting.

We need to demand overpayment, because 1) we need to do it to make it worth it and 2) history has shown that no matter how stupid, someone will make the deal if they think it will help.

[MemorialStadKid]

Ah... sounds like this thread is about to get derailed about hypothetical details.

Again, in my eyes, it's pretty simple. We're not closing to winning the WS. Tejada has a lot of value now, and will probably have less value as time wears on.

If you can improve the team for the future, by trading him, in the right deal, I say you do it. Keeping him, making minor moves, and crossing our collective fingers, will probably result in a 10th losing season. (Keeping him, making major moves, and becoming a playoff team doesn't seem like something this team is capable of doing, especially this offeason).

It's not a sentimental thing. It's a practical thing.

Thank you for getting back to the main point of this thread.

I want to make myself clear in stating that I don't have some kind of reckless loyalty for the sake of having loyalty to Miguel Tejada. I don't know him personally, and I don't know what kind of man he is, but in terms of baseball, I can't think of a reason to send him packing THIS year.

And my overall feeling is that all this talk is counter-productive to maintaining a sense of fan unity. Once again, I have rarely, if ever, seen a Red Sox message board that screams for the removal of David Ortiz, nor have I ever heard of a bunch of Yankees fans asking for the trade of Derek Jeter.

Like it or not, Tejada is a cornerstone of our current defensive and offensive alignment, and all this talk of trading him seems incredibly pointless when in the end, the FO is going to do what they want to do.

Sure, Tejada made a statement about leaving the Orioles publicly. So what. He only said out loud what a lot of other guys were probrably feeling privately about Angelos' lack of competence in baseball management. That isn't a new thing for a player to dislike managerial moves. I mean come on guys.

Also, its not like a few guys every now and then make comments about Tejada being traded, at least 2-3 posts PER DAY are on here with titles like, "Tejada for blah blah," "How does Tejada for blah blah sound," "Would you trade Tejada for blah blah?" -- and it almost feels like OH has become the unofficial Baltimore Fantasy Baseball speculation message board instead of an Orioles fan site.

I just find it incredibly bizarre to see Orioles fans so desperate for a move that they would welcome moving one of our star players for no real reason.

MSK

[TheUnit]

Right now, I dont think it would be in the Oriole's best interest to trade Tejada, because he provides such great production from a position like SS. I think if there was a time to trade him it was when they could have gotten Oswalt at the deadline. Oswalt is the big time pitcher the O's need.

[Sports Guy]

Change "road" to "outside Anaheim Stadium".

We know Markakis can hit here.

What?

Markakis didn't hit well on the road this year...So, by your theory, he is not a good hitter.

[Sports Guy]

Thank you for getting back to the main point of this thread.

I want to make myself clear in stating that I don't have some kind of reckless loyalty for the sake of having loyalty to Miguel Tejada. I don't know him personally, and I don't know what kind of man he is, but in terms of baseball, I can't think of a reason to send him packing THIS year.

And my overall feeling is that all this talk is counter-productive to maintaining a sense of fan unity. Once again, I have rarely, if ever, seen a Red Sox message board that screams for the removal of David Ortiz, nor have I ever heard of a bunch of Yankees fans asking for the trade of Derek Jeter.

Like it or not, Tejada is a cornerstone of our current defensive and offensive alignment, and all this talk of trading him seems incredibly pointless when in the end, the FO is going to do what they want to do.

Sure, Tejada made a statement about leaving the Orioles publicly. So what. He only said out loud what a lot of other guys were probrably feeling privately about Angelos' lack of competence in baseball management. That isn't a new thing for a player to dislike managerial moves. I mean come on guys.

Also, its not like a few guys every now and then make comments about Tejada being traded, at least 2-3 posts PER DAY are on here with titles like, "Tejada for blah blah," "How does Tejada for blah blah sound," "Would you trade Tejada for blah blah?" -- and it almost feels like OH has become the unofficial Baltimore Fantasy Baseball speculation message board instead of an Orioles fan site.

I just find it incredibly bizarre to see Orioles fans so desperate for a move that they would welcome moving one of our star players for no real reason.

MSK

Who cares if he is the cornerstone? We are going NO WHERE with him. Its not his fault of course but this team needs alot more than Tejada and the FO is unlikely to give it to us so, trade Tejada and get the pieces that we need.

[bigloe]

Who cares if he is the cornerstone? We are going NO WHERE with him. Its not his fault of course but this team needs alot more than Tejada and the FO is unlikely to give it to us so, trade Tejada and get the pieces that we need.

I thought this was a discussion board. Can somebody else have an opinion besides you? Just because you have 30,000 posts, doesn't mean you know more than anyone else hear!

[TheUnit]

And my overall feeling is that all this talk is counter-productive to maintaining a sense of fan unity. Once again, I have rarely, if ever, seen a Red Sox message board that screams for the removal of David Ortiz, nor have I ever heard of a bunch of Yankees fans asking for the trade of Derek Jeter.

Yeah, the Yankee fans are too busy wanting to get rid of A-Rod and Sheffield:002_smad:

I don't get any of them though. On a Yankee board I post on people want to trade A-Rod for Howie Kendrick and Ervin Santana. They don't realize how badly they will miss A-Rod's 35 homers and 120 RBIs. It is the same story with Tejada. Unless you are getting a bona fide ace, the Orioles will miss Tejada's great offensive ability A LOT more than people realize.

[El Gordo]

Who cares if he is the cornerstone? We are going NO WHERE with him. Its not his fault of course but this team needs alot more than Tejada and the FO is unlikely to give it to us so, trade Tejada and get the pieces that we need.

If all we need is a league average SS, a 1B who hasn't been able to lift a bat all season and might not be ready by spring training and a SP who can't win outside of Anahiem, why not just sign them on the FA market and keep Tejada.