Speculation on Lee / Utley being moved - O's interested?

[Ruzious]

Yes to Utley, torn on Lee. The guy is already 34, and making around 20M a year IIRCC.

$25 mil a year for Lee for several more years. No chance the O's even consider Lee, imo. Utley - if he's healthy near the trade deadline, and they're still in it to win it - you gotta consider trading for him.

[isestrex]

His ERA is 3.46. He's an ace who isn't quite as good as he was a few years ago. If Cliff Lee doesn't meet your standards for a #1 SP, then your standards are too high.

Also, the terms #1, #2 SP, etc. are completely meaningless. They're subjective and they make it way too easy for people to paint pitchers with broad strokes.

Lee is a great pitcher, Top 15 in the MLB in my opinion. I'd love to have him pitching for the Orioles in Game 1 of a playoff series.

Agree with all of this. Lee is legit.

I'd give up Bundy with arm troubles for a few years of Lee and half a year of Utley. Why cross your fingers and hope you get an ace when you can trade him for a guaranteed ace?

[Roll Tide]

Not only would I not consider Bundy or Gausman, but Schoop is a deal breaker for me too.

I agree with this 100%

[Ruzious]

Agree with all of this. Lee is legit.

I'd give up Bundy with arm troubles for a few years of Lee and half a year of Utley. Why cross your fingers and hope you get an ace when you can trade him for a guaranteed ace?

There are 25 million reasons per season. Do you seriously think the O's would pick up Lee's contract - even if they didn't have to give up any players?

[weams]

I'm not so sure about that. They put Lee on the August waivers last year and he made it all the way to the Dodgers before they had to pull him back.

Ok. I stand corrected then.

[isestrex]

There are 25 million reasons per season. Do you seriously think the O's would pick up Lee's contract - even if they didn't have to give up any players?

"Would I?" and "Would the Orioles?" are two different questions.

I'm not sure if Peter Angelos would be willing to expand payroll for this but I think he would if DD told him it was necessary.

As for my opinion, yes, 25M is a lot of money but I like it for a short term deal. The Orioles would get 2.5 seasons from Lee (more if he's effective), which is exactly the window this team should be building for and aiming to compete in. It doesn't hamstring the Orioles' future if things go awry (unlike the Sabathia deal).

[bluedog]

There are 25 million reasons per season. Do you seriously think the O's would pick up Lee's contract - even if they didn't have to give up any players?

Assuming the Phillies ate some of Lee's salary in any deal, there is presumably a number for which the O's would be willing to pick up the remainder of Lee's contract. Let's say the Phils eat 20M of his remaining 60M, putting Lee's cost to the O's at 16M per season. Would Angelos pull the trigger on that? Maybe. Of course the more money the Phils put in, the more valuable the players traded back to them would need to be to close the deal.

The parameters for a deal are there. The O's need a #1 SP, the Phils (apparently) want to shed salary and rebuild, the O's can (presumably) take on payroll, the O's have some intriguing young players around which a package could be built. The O's are an up and coming contender with the "it" factor in the clubhouse that Lee may be willing to waive his no trade clause for.

It's just a question of whether or not DD sees Lee or a bonafide #1 starter as a necessary piece for the O's to challenge for a title. If he does then such a deal could happen.

[csgordos]

What would it honestly take to get a deal done for these 2? Not saying it will be done or that I myself would even want to. Looking at it from both sides would: Arrieta, Flaherty, Avery/Hoes, Delmonico, and one of our current MLB Left handed relievers be a fair trade (or too lopsided one way or the other). No way the Orioles give up Bundy or Gausman. Utley is only here for one year so Schoop is not an option in my opinion. I understand the money factor, but the Phillies have to get something back for the media hit they will take for trading both of those players. But, I am not sure they could sell what I would be willing to give up.

[LayzieDES]

What would it honestly take to get a deal done for these 2? Not saying it will be done or that I myself would even want to. Looking at it from both sides would: Arrieta, Flaherty, Avery/Hoes, Delmonico, and one of our current MLB Left handed relievers be a fair trade (or too lopsided one way or the other). No way the Orioles give up Bundy or Gausman. Utley is only here for one year so Schoop is not an option in my opinion. I understand the money factor, but the Phillies have to get something back for the media hit they will take for trading both of those players. But, I am not sure they could sell what I would be willing to give up.

I think starting point for them (after Bundy/Gausman gets shot down) would indeed be Schoop. Work it around him & I think they could make a serious deal.

[isestrex]

What would it honestly take to get a deal done for these 2? Not saying it will be done or that I myself would even want to. Looking at it from both sides would: Arrieta, Flaherty, Avery/Hoes, Delmonico, and one of our current MLB Left handed relievers be a fair trade (or too lopsided one way or the other). No way the Orioles give up Bundy or Gausman. Utley is only here for one year so Schoop is not an option in my opinion. I understand the money factor, but the Phillies have to get something back for the media hit they will take for trading both of those players. But, I am not sure they could sell what I would be willing to give up.

This is the classic sports radio call in proposal of "our trash for your treasure"

In other words, no. The Phillies laugh and hang up then call the Braves to laugh over what morons we are for even offering.

[crowmst3k!]

I'd make anyone available in the acquisition of Lee with the exception of Gausman.

Lee is not going to lose his effectiveness anytime soon. His FIP has remained consistently excellent over this and the previous 5 seasons. At worst, his velocity dips into the high 80's and he's Andy Pettitte.

I'd give up Bundy for the assurance of that production. I will not give up Gausman. He's going to be Mike Mussina good.

It's a very tempting idea, and a lot of it hinges on how much real payroll flexibility the O's have. Can they support a 110+ million dollar payroll? Can they do this and still have the available resources to extend Wieters?

I look at the Nationals, and see a team that has a significantly lower stake in MASN and their ability to sport a $118 million dollar payroll as proof that the Orioles can do the same.

Utley would be coming off the books next year, as would Brian Roberts. Markakis is off the books after 2014 (huge savings, considering his price/production). I think that the O's could support the additional payroll in the short term, and see it even out over a longer period, even if/when Wieters is extended.

I'd strongly consider it, especially as it puts the Orioles in the drivers seat for the AL East this year.

[LookinUp]

This is the classic sports radio call in proposal of "our trash for your treasure"

In other words, no. The Phillies laugh and hang up then call the Braves to laugh over what morons we are for even offering.

I disagree (sort of).

Our trash could exclude Bundy, Gausman and Schoop and still provide decent return. E.Rod, Tim Berry, Delmonico, Hobgood, Arrieta and Britton could be pieced together for a great return (too much), for example.

You look at this like two different trades. At his price, Cliff Lee simply won't get a great return. If you're willing to take the full salary, they're willing to dump him for a likely AAAA guy, or maybe a low probability guy with upside like Hobgood. If you take on some salary, the price goes up.

Utley is a different story altogether. I suspect he nets ERod (who looks to be solidifying himself in the top 100 prospects this year) plus a slightly lesser prospect or one of the guys we might be willing to give up on (Arrieta, Strop, Britton -- depending on timing and performance this year).

[LookinUp]

This is the classic sports radio call in proposal of "our trash for your treasure"

In other words, no. The Phillies laugh and hang up then call the Braves to laugh over what morons we are for even offering.

Edit: Duplicate post.

[jtschrei]

We should not trade for Cliff Lee. Period.

I think Utley will be an Oriole if BRob cannot come back or comes back and gets hurt again... a definite possibility.

[NickM21]

It really depends what the Phillies would except in return for Utley. Man would he look good in our lineup though. If we can avoid Bundy/Gausman/Schoop, I think it's certainly a possibility.