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Angelos Vent Thread


sportsfan8703

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On December 9, 2005, Tejada asked to be traded, citing "frustration with two losing seasons and what he perceived as front office inactivity." http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2005-12-10/sports/0512100441_1_tejada-orioles-trade. The dinner you remember probably happened in that time period.

Yes. It was a few weeks before thanksgiving!

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Jack Kent Cooke was one.

Maybe Mark Cuban.

But, the list is very short.

He believes HGH does not improve an athlete performance..... no.. just ... :no:

"Being in sports, I try to pay attention to all of the technology and everything," Cuban said. "It's never been proven that HGH helps a baseball player or a basketball player. It's just been so tainted that players shouldn't take it that it's become banned for no good reason."

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/9552879/mark-cuban-rips-bud-selig-baseball-alex-rodriguez-saga

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Who is to say Biscotti would be a good owner for the O's. The Ravens have a salary cap and they make a lot of money. Who is to say he wouldn't go the Angelos path if he had the O's. He didn't hire Ozzie but I bet he has influence over what he does. You really can't compare an owner who gets a ton of TV money and has a owner friendly salary cap to a team in baseball where other owners have no limit to the money they can spend.

Anyway the money that the Ravens have tied up in high paid players seems like it has been wasted. Flacco and Rice looked pretty bad this year and Ngata didn't look worth the money he makes.

Their is no doubt that the NFL and MLB are two completely different monsters. Reality is though the Ravens operate under the same rules in the NFL as every other team n the NFL just as the Orioles operate in the same rule structure as every other MLB team. The reason the Orioles have been a losing franchise (when judging the body of work) since Angelos took over ownership has nothing to do with their inability to compete financially with MFY or Boston etc..... many many teams with equal or less financial resources comparative to the Orioles have had much more success recently. That includes one team (Tampa) in their own division. Pete owns the team, he chooses the GM who guides it, he provides the budget and he is ultimately responsible for the end product results which have clearly been lacking.

Yes Stevie B benefited by having Ozzie here but last I checked Pete had a guy in house who is a good baseball equivalent of Ozzie, Pat Gillick whom he managed to alienate and run out of town. I dunno their is no way to definitively say ...yea Steve B would be a better baseball owner than Pete but I can say the bar is low enough that if I were a betting man I would certainly bet he would be. I would also bet my last dollar that there is no way in gods creation that he would have sat on his hands the way the O's have essentially the last two offseasons with a team that is primed to compete. Again I am just speculating and forming my opinion based on the product both men have provided the Baltimore community to watch during their tenure as owner.

Far as the Ravens....think they will be just fine. Last offseason was a tumultuous one with all the losses because of the cap and retirements etc.... They still managed to compete till the last week of the season for a playoff spot after five straight years in the playoffs. Far as Joe, well your gonna make mistakes when your getting creamed and spending as much time on your back as he did. Fix that some and he will be fine.

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Jack Kent Cooke was one.

Maybe Mark Cuban.

But, the list is very short.

There are a lot of great ownership groups, that is nonsense.

Pat Bowlen allowed Josh McDaniels to destroy the Broncos not once interfering, right or wrong. Hire the people, evaluate the people, rinse, repeat.

This tongue and cheek stuff that their aren't good owners that understand they can't meddle is nonsense.

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There are a lot of great ownership groups, that is nonsense.

Pat Bowlen allowed Josh McDaniels to destroy the Broncos not once interfering, right or wrong. Hire the people, evaluate the people, rinse, repeat.

This tongue and cheek stuff that their aren't good owners that understand they can't meddle is nonsense.

I do not believe that. Especially in the non capped MLB. Sorry. Think you are wrong.

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I do not believe that. Especially in the non capped MLB. Sorry. Think younger wrong.
There are a lot of great ownership groups, that is nonsense.

Pat Bowlen allowed Josh McDaniels to destroy the Broncos not once interfering, right or wrong. Hire the people, evaluate the people, rinse, repeat.

This tongue and cheek stuff that their aren't good owners that understand they can't meddle is nonsense.

Every owner meddles to some degree. Ultimately I am sure that any major contract the Broncos offer is run by Bowlen even if its just cursory rundown of the amounts and why they want said player.

The best owners are the ones who have 2 qualities imo.... they are first and foremost competitive as all hell and hate to lose. The second element is that they have to realize that they will never understand the game and sport in the manner that those who spend their entire lives playing, coaching and administering it do.

Your example of Bowlen is an excellent one. Yes McDaniel was a disaster but Bowlen understands that does not mean he needed to be more involved in the day to day operations, he simply understood it mean HE hired the wrong guy to mange those. He addressed his failure by getting the right guy and letting him do his thing.

The antithesis of that is Jerry Jones who was an excellent owner when he let Jimmy Johnson (who knew the game) run the franchise. The minute that Jones believed he knew more than his football people was the minute that franchise declined in terms of results. Jones is a guy who is competitive but can't get out of his own way IMO.

Pete? Well in my opinion Pete has improved somewhat in terms of the meddling but I do believe that Pete makes it very hard for a GM to point this team in a definitive direction. On the one hand he does not appear to be willing to fund the team to the level it needs to be in order to compete with a farm system that is lackluster (though improving). On the other hand its my opinion he is unwilling to go the full on Tampa style of build players, trade those guys for max return, rinse, repeat. I think its been pretty much proven that this middle of the road approach does not work yet he seems unwilling to this point to really truly commit to one or the other. You can argue he committed to a rebuild under McPhail (I do believe there some truth to that) but the reality is their was little to no choice unless he was willing to spend mega bucks to bring in talent. Last but not least its pretty clear to me that the bottom line is more important to Pete than winning. I don't expect Choo, Garza or Tanaka but I do expect to make moves that take a competitive team and make them tangibly better enough that dreams of competing are not simply pipe dreams. There is still time left to make some noise and add some solid talent to the roster. I hope, no I beg and pray that I am dead wrong and Pete's competitive fire is burning brightly resulting in some solid smart signings.

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Every owner meddles to some degree. Ultimately I am sure that any major contract the Broncos offer is run by Bowlen even if its just cursory rundown of the amounts and why they want said player.

The best owners are the ones who have 2 qualities imo.... they are first and foremost competitive as all hell and hate to lose. The second element is that they have to realize that they will never understand the game and sport in the manner that those who spend their entire lives playing, coaching and administering it do.

Your example of Bowlen is an excellent one. Yes McDaniel was a disaster but Bowlen understands that does not mean he needed to be more involved in the day to day operations, he simply understood it mean HE hired the wrong guy to mange those. He addressed his failure by getting the right guy and letting him do his thing.

The antithesis of that is Jerry Jones who was an excellent owner when he let Jimmy Johnson (who knew the game) run the franchise. The minute that Jones believed he knew more than his football people was the minute that franchise declined in terms of results. Jones is a guy who is competitive but can't get out of his own way IMO.

Pete? Well in my opinion Pete has improved somewhat in terms of the meddling but I do believe that Pete makes it very hard for a GM to point this team in a definitive direction. On the one hand he does not appear to be willing to fund the team to the level it needs to be in order to compete with a farm system that is lackluster (though improving). On the other hand its my opinion he is unwilling to go the full on Tampa style of build players, trade those guys for max return, rinse, repeat. I think its been pretty much proven that this middle of the road approach does not work yet he seems unwilling to this point to really truly commit to one or the other. You can argue he committed to a rebuild under McPhail (I do believe there some truth to that) but the reality is their was little to no choice unless he was willing to spend mega bucks to bring in talent. Last but not least its pretty clear to me that the bottom line is more important to Pete than winning. I don't expect Choo, Garza or Tanaka but I do expect to make moves that take a competitive team and make them tangibly better enough that dreams of competing are not simply pipe dreams. There is still time left to make some noise and add some solid talent to the roster. I hope, no I beg and pray that I am dead wrong and Pete's competitive fire is burning brightly resulting in some solid smart signings.

I think the issue with the first bolded statement is that most owners have this competitive streak. Because they are highly successful in whatever area there is in business, they believe that they can succeed in sports as well. Jerry Jones may feel justified in his approach because the Cowboys did expeience aome success after he fired Johnson. It was a long time ago.

I think the Orioles are tryinge to work off the Tampa model. However, their farm system is not strong enough to replentish the roster right now. Particularly the pitching staff. IMO, this is why the Orioles sign the depth guys and make so much use of the Norfolk to Baltimore shuttle. I'll say that the appoach has not worked to produce a pennant winner, but the team has been more competetive using this approach.

I know that you don't expect the Orioles to sign these guys, I'm just curious who you would have wanted the Orioles to sign. I don't think that the Orioles have missed out that much on free agents at this point.

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I think the issue with the first bolded statement is that most owners have this competitive streak. Because they are highly successful in whatever area there is in business, they believe that they can succeed in sports as well. Jerry Jones may feel justified in his approach because the Cowboys did expeience aome success after he fired Johnson. It was a long time ago.

I think the Orioles are tryinge to work off the Tampa model. However, their farm system is not strong enough to replentish the roster right now. Particularly the pitching staff. IMO, this is why the Orioles sign the depth guys and make so much use of the Norfolk to Baltimore shuttle. I'll say that the appoach has not worked to produce a pennant winner, but the team has been more competetive using this approach.

I know that you don't expect the Orioles to sign these guys, I'm just curious who you would have wanted the Orioles to sign. I don't think that the Orioles have missed out that much on free agents at this point.

I think the issue with the first bolded statement is that most owners have this competitive streak. Because they are highly successful in whatever area there is in business, they beklieve that they can succeed in sports as well. Jerry Jones may feel justified in his approach because the Cowboys did expeience aome success after he fired Johnson. It was a long time ago.

I think the Orioles are tryinge to work off the Tampa model. However, their farm system is not strong enough to replentish the roster right now. Particularly the pitching staff. IMO, this is why the Orioles sign the depth guys and make so much use of the Norfolk to Baltimore shuttle. I'll say that the appoach has not worked to produce a pennant winner, but the team has been more competetive using this approach.

I know that you don't expect the Orioles to sign these guys, I'm just curious who you would have wanted the Orioles to sign. I just don't think that the Orioles have missed out on that much to this point.

Morneau (DH), Mujiica, Joe Smith, Balfour (j/k lol), Hart, Nathan, Murphy, Logan, Hudson, Saltamacchia (if moved Matt), there are more these are just off the top of my head.

You can go one by one and nit pick, find reasons why they are not worth what they are getting etc..... That's more than fair on a case by case basis and makes some sense. The issue occurs when you make that decision on each and everyone. The net effect puts you at a competitive disadvantage. I would have no issue with Lough in LF if we say had Hart on the roster to DH. When you go with Lough, then say Urrita and Reimold at DH you end up with what happened last year IMO.....

We have this attitude that going with the lowest cost guy who has the highest upside and lowest floor is the right move everytime. Its not. There are times were slow and steady can win the race. Particularly when you have some top end talent which I believe the O's have. Yes some of the guys on that list are not worth what their being paid, but guess what, that's the price you pay for not having viable options in the farm system. If you want to compete and do not have a strong farm system (which the O's do not esp position prospects) then you have to understand that your going to have to acquire talent other ways and that often involves a premium. If your not willing to pay that premium and you do not have a good farm system you can kiss winning goodbye

There comes a point were at the end of the season your look at the little drops in production that you took to save a dollar, to not have to sign that guy to a deal your not 100% sure is great and find out that it is reflected in the teams record and onfield production. Its not any one decision IMO its the mass effect of them

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Funny that PA isn't on that list. Although he might be #10...

Little off also...Forbes has Stevie B at 2.1 or so billion.

Kevin Plank is an interesting name on that list. He is the kinda of guy I could see buying a team. Former football player at UMD so sports is in his blood and he does love the limelight a bit also.

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Morneau (DH), Mujiica, Joe Smith, Balfour (j/k lol), Hart, Nathan, Murphy, Logan, Hudson, Saltamacchia (if moved Matt), there are more these are just off the top of my head.

You can go one by one and nit pick, find reasons why they are not worth what they are getting etc..... That's more than fair on a case by case basis and makes some sense. The issue occurs when you make that decision on each and everyone. The net effect puts you at a competitive disadvantage. I would have no issue with Lough in LF if we say had Hart on the roster to DH. When you go with Lough, then say Urrita and Reimold at DH you end up with what happened last year IMO.....

We have this attitude that going with the lowest cost guy who has the highest upside and lowest floor is the right move everytime. Its not. There are times were slow and steady can win the race. Particularly when you have some top end talent which I believe the O's have. Yes some of the guys on that list are not worth what their being paid, but guess what, that's the price you pay for not having viable options in the farm system. If you want to compete and do not have a strong farm system (which the O's do not esp position prospects) then you have to understand that your going to have to acquire talent other ways and that often involves a premium. If your not willing to pay that premium and you do not have a good farm system you can kiss winning goodbye

There comes a point were at the end of the season your look at the little drops in production that you took to save a dollar, to not have to sign that guy to a deal your not 100% sure is great and find out that it is reflected in the teams record and onfield production. Its not any one decision IMO its the mass effect of them

I'm not going to nit pick on your choices. That's not why I asked. I wanted to get an idea of who you thought the Orioles could get. All of them seem pretty reasonable to me from a money standpoint. From where I'm sitting, I'd like them to sign Morales as the impact bat ( I'd give up the draft pick.) and a starting pitcher. ( Burnett or Arroyo) In addition, I'd like them to bring in anther starter to push the back end guys like Guasman, Briton, etc.)

I agree with the premise that you may have to overpay for guys because you do not have viable options in the farm system, however, I think that the Orioles have proven that they can in fact be competitive by not paying a premium price for talent at positions like DH. However, I do think that it can be said that this is one of the reasons that the team connot be looked at as a contender.

The bolded statement is a very good point. In other words, you usually get what you pay for. If your philosophy is to bottom feed, you should not be surprised when the results are less than stellar.

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I'm not going to nit pick on your choices. That's not why I asked. I wanted to get an idea of who you thought the Orioles could get. All of them seem pretty reasonable to me from a money standpoint. From where I'm sitting, I'd like them to sign Morales as the impact bat ( I'd give up the draft pick.) and a starting pitcher. ( Burnett or Arroyo) In addition, I'd like them to bring in anther starter to push the back end guys like Guasman, Briton, etc.)

I agree with the premise that you may have to overpay for guys because you do not have viable options in the farm system, however, I think that the Orioles have proven that they can in fact be competitive by not paying a premium price for talent at positions like DH. However, I do think that it can be said that this is one of the reasons that the team connot be looked at as a contender.

The bolded statement is a very good point. In other words, you usually get what you pay for. If your philosophy is to bottom feed, you should not be surprised when the results are less than stellar.

Thanks for the well thought out reply.

Like I said I think there is still time to improve the club. I hope we do. As constructed right now they are at best equal to last years and thats being mighty mighty generous IMO.

On the surface the MFY, Boston and TB (depending on Price) seem to have gotten better IMO. I think if we want to compete we still need some infusion of talent.

On paper the Jays won last season and we all saw how that worked out ....so one can never tell.

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