Camden Depot's Shepherd: Failed Physicals and Testing the Orioles' Success

[mdbdotcom]

I get that they are bound by HIPPA to not disclose their reasons for rejecting the Balfour deal. I also think that is why its a tactic Pete has employed in the past (not passing the physical). Its convenient to not have to explain why you changed your mind if your Pete. Frank Wren was pretty clear about that and the fact that it was a favorite Angelos tactic. But I guess he just has it out for the O's like everyone else.

I don't expect Pete to dip in his own pockets to sign players and I do not expect to sign Choo, Ellsbury, Tanaka or top flight talent like that. If the Orioles cannot manage a payroll of 110-120 million with the market and MASN while still being profitable then someone there is a complete fool. I expect Pete who has pocketed profits year after year while saying when the time comes he would spend to do just that and be a man of his word. to put back into his team when the opportunity presents. I continued to buy season tickets when this team sucked, I believed that when the time came they would reward that loyalty by giving us something to cheer about, giving us hope. Instead to this point they have poured gas on the bed and lit it ablaze IMO. I know buying tickets and merchandise is no big deal to you maybe but for my family we sacrificed other things cause we love baseball, love the O's players and hoped that he would be true to his word. I am disappointing, angry and frankly feel betrayed as a fan. I am not willing to close my eyes and pretend like its all good. This man is a blight on a once proud franchise.

If this Balfour thing is nothing more than what the O's say it is, then Pete is nothing more than the little boy who cried wolf....finally he is telling the truth but nobody believes him. Why should they though when just about everything that has come out of his mouth regarding this team is an outright lie. You ask us for evidence, I submit there is 20+ yrs of evidence there in front of your face what this man is all about as an owner. If in this one case he is being upfront you will have to excuse me for not caring and not believing his lies anymore.

I wouldn't take Frank Wren's word for anything about the O's. He was here as GM for one year. He's the guy who signed Xavier Hernandez without a pending physical clause, announced the signing, and then cost Angelos a million dollars after he flunked the physical and the deal was nixed. He also saddled the O's with Will Clark, Mike Fetters, Heathcliff Slocumb, Mike Timlin, and Ricky Bones - all signed in the offseason before 1999. Frank Wren is the guy who made it possible for Syd Thrift to become GM by totally stinking up the joint. I'm sure he's doing a great job in Atlanta. Just look at the deal he gave BJ Upton. He'll be signing those checks for four more seasons. Good riddance.

[Number5]

I get that they are bound by HIPPA to not disclose their reasons for rejecting the Balfour deal. I also think that is why its a tactic Pete has employed in the past (not passing the physical). Its convenient to not have to explain why you changed your mind if your Pete. Frank Wren was pretty clear about that and the fact that it was a favorite Angelos tactic. But I guess he just has it out for the O's like everyone else.

I don't expect Pete to dip in his own pockets to sign players and I do not expect to sign Choo, Ellsbury, Tanaka or top flight talent like that. If the Orioles cannot manage a payroll of 110-120 million with the market and MASN while still being profitable then someone there is a complete fool. I expect Pete who has pocketed profits year after year while saying when the time comes he would spend to do just that and be a man of his word. to put back into his team when the opportunity presents. I continued to buy season tickets when this team sucked, I believed that when the time came they would reward that loyalty by giving us something to cheer about, giving us hope. Instead to this point they have poured gas on the bed and lit it ablaze IMO. I know buying tickets and merchandise is no big deal to you maybe but for my family we sacrificed other things cause we love baseball, love the O's players and hoped that he would be true to his word. I am disappointing, angry and frankly feel betrayed as a fan. I am not willing to close my eyes and pretend like its all good. This man is a blight on a once proud franchise.

If this Balfour thing is nothing more than what the O's say it is, then Pete is nothing more than the little boy who cried wolf....finally he is telling the truth but nobody believes him. Why should they though when just about everything that has come out of his mouth regarding this team is an outright lie. You ask us for evidence, I submit there is 20+ yrs of evidence there in front of your face what this man is all about as an owner. If in this one case he is being upfront you will have to excuse me for not caring and not believing his lies anymore.

IIRC, Frank Wren stuck the Orioles by signing Xavier Hernandez for $2.5 million without a physical exam. Hernandez had a torn rotator cuff at the time. That was on Wren, and caused Angelos' heavy involvement in future signings, IMO. As it turned out the Orioles balked that Hernandez did not negotiate in good faith, the parties settled, and it cost the Orioles $1.75 million. Wren was the GM only for the 1999 season. Wren was understandably fired after the season in 1999. Of all people, Wren has little room to bad-mouth the Orioles, IMO. He botched the Hernandez situation, and left us with a meddling owner as a result. His comments were, frankly, uncalled-for, given his mishandling of Hernandez, and the resulting legacy he has left us.

[Number5]

LOL. Sorry, mdbdotcom, I posted this without seeing your post. Glad we agree.

[mdbdotcom]

LOL. Sorry, mdbdotcom, I posted this without seeing your post. Glad we agree.

No problemo.

[SteveO]

IIRC, Frank Wren stuck the Orioles by signing Xavier Hernandez for $2.5 million without a physical exam. Hernandez had a torn rotator cuff at the time. That was on Wren, and caused Angelos' heavy involvement in future signings, IMO. As it turned out the Orioles balked that Hernandez did not negotiate in good faith, the parties settled, and it cost the Orioles $1.75 million. Wren was the GM only for the 1999 season. Wren was understandably fired after the season in 1999. Of all people, Wren has little room to bad-mouth the Orioles, IMO. He botched the Hernandez situation, and left us with a meddling owner as a result. His comments were, frankly, uncalled-for, given his mishandling of Hernandez, and the resulting legacy he has left us.

So because he sucked as the Oriole GM anything he has to say about his experience here is sour grapes? Yes Wren gave Upton a stupid deal, no I do not think he is a great GM, that said he is a respected baseball guy not some schmuck who got fired from the ticket counter. Its fair to take some of what he says with a grain of salt but to dismiss it because you did not like his job performance is disingenuous and mighty convenient. To clearify what another response said, we did not get stuck with Syd Thrift because Frank Wren sucked....we got stuck with Syd Thrift because he was the most credible person they could find who would tolerate Pete's meddling and antics. Lets not rewrite history.

Look I think Balfour and the O's both could have handled this whole thing better. It will blow over. Maybe the whole thing is exactly as the O's have said. Problem is that when you cry wolf one to many times....it might come back to bite you in the butt the one time you actually see a wolf.

[El Gordo]

So the O's were negotiating with Balfour for a 2 year deal, while he wanted a 3 year deal. And they were willing to offer two years without any idea of his medicals? Or did they have a good idea of his medicals and felt two years were safe, until something new showed up on his most recent physical? I tend to believe Balfour's doctors when they say there is no difference between what was there before and what is there now. The difference is in their opinion of degree of risk. They are reputable orthopedic surgeons and would not endanger their reputations by misrepresenting themselves. PA on the other hand has a prior history of these kinds of shenanigans, and we have no idea of what his doctors have said.

[Frobby]

I don't expect Pete to dip in his own pockets to sign players and I do not expect to sign Choo, Ellsbury, Tanaka or top flight talent like that. If the Orioles cannot manage a payroll of 110-120 million with the market and MASN while still being profitable then someone there is a complete fool. I expect Pete who has pocketed profits year after year while saying when the time comes he would spend to do just that and be a man of his word. to put back into his team when the opportunity presents. I continued to buy season tickets when this team sucked, I believed that when the time came they would reward that loyalty by giving us something to cheer about, giving us hope. Instead to this point they have poured gas on the bed and lit it ablaze IMO.

I can't really disagree with much of this. I'm not as angry as you are, mainly because the winter isn't over and I'm not going to rule out the Orioles from being a playoff contender again this year in any event. But, I am disappointed that the O's have been so passive to this point in the offseason and concerned that they may either fall out of contention entirely, or fall agonizingly short of a playoff berth, because they didn't do what was necessary to improve on last year's 85-win team.

[El Gordo]

I can't really disagree with much of this. I'm not as angry as you are, mainly because the winter isn't over and I'm not going to rule out the Orioles from being a playoff contender again this year in any event. But, I am disappointed that the O's have been so passive to this point in the offseason and concerned that they may either fall out of contention entirely, or fall agonizingly short of a playoff berth, because they didn't do what was necessary to improve on last year's 85-win team.

At the beginning of the winter I felt they were an 85 W team that with some tweaking and/or luck could make the playoffs. Now they have dug themselves in to a hole where I feel they will be lucky to be .500, and their options for improvement have been severely limited. All indications so far are that they are working under payroll constraints and none of the 25 M TV money is in play. There's still time but with the indications of PA meddling, things look pretty bleak to me. Maybe AJ Burnett will decide to play for us(if he can pass the physical)and we can sign a bat.

[SteveO]

I can't really disagree with much of this. I'm not as angry as you are, mainly because the winter isn't over and I'm not going to rule out the Orioles from being a playoff contender again this year in any event. But, I am disappointed that the O's have been so passive to this point in the offseason and concerned that they may either fall out of contention entirely, or fall agonizingly short of a playoff berth, because they didn't do what was necessary to improve on last year's 85-win team.

Your very right. The winter is not over. Who knows maybe the O's shock everyone and make a splash with one of the starters out there. If they signed Burnett and perhaps got a modest bat and one more BP arm...at this point I would be thrilled with that

Maybe we should all pray The Baseball Ghost Of Christmas ...Past, Present and Future will visit the warehouse tonight

[Can_of_corn]

Your very right. The winter is not over. Who knows maybe the O's shock everyone and make a splash with one of the starters out there. If they signed Burnett and perhaps got a modest bat and one more BP arm...at this point I would be thrilled with that

Maybe we should all pray The Baseball Ghost Of Christmas ...Past, Present and Future will visit the warehouse tonight

We don't want the Baseball Ghost of Christmas past showing up, he would try and get PA to trade off all the minority players and reinstate the reserve clause.

[Number5]

So because he sucked as the Oriole GM anything he has to say about his experience here is sour grapes? Yes Wren gave Upton a stupid deal, no I do not think he is a great GM, that said he is a respected baseball guy not some schmuck who got fired from the ticket counter. Its fair to take some of what he says with a grain of salt but to dismiss it because you did not like his job performance is disingenuous and mighty convenient. To clearify what another response said, we did not get stuck with Syd Thrift because Frank Wren sucked....we got stuck with Syd Thrift because he was the most credible person they could find who would tolerate Pete's meddling and antics. Lets not rewrite history.

Look I think Balfour and the O's both could have handled this whole thing better. It will blow over. Maybe the whole thing is exactly as the O's have said. Problem is that when you cry wolf one to many times....it might come back to bite you in the butt the one time you actually see a wolf.

Of course it was sour grapes. On top of that, it was flat-out false. Angelos did not step in to nix Wren's deals for medical before they were final. Angelos began doing that AFTER Wren. Wren spent a lot of money, and failed miserably. We have him to that for Angelos' meddling, pinching pennies, and having a very stringent physical examination policy. My point is that Wren, of all people, had absolutely no business saying anything regarding the medical issues and did not have that experience himself. Wren's Hernadez mistake is the main cause for the Orioles' stringent medical policies.

I was ticked at Angelos at the time over Jon Miller and Davey Johnson, and remain ticked about how he mishandled those men, but Angelos had not intervened in medical issues at that time, and had actually shown a willingness to spend money. We were among the top payrolls in MLB.

For you to call me disingenuous and convenient (what?!) is totally uncalled-for, as well as false. Wren is being disingenuous. You are citing what Wren said, without bothering to see if Wren had himself experienced the medical issue, and using the present Balfour circumstance. You are the one taking advantage of a convenience here, not me.

[weams]

I wouldn't take Frank Wren's word for anything about the O's. He was here as GM for one year. He's the guy who signed Xavier Hernandez without a pending physical clause, announced the signing, and then cost Angelos a million dollars after he flunked the physical and the deal was nixed. He also saddled the O's with Will Clark, Mike Fetters, Heathcliff Slocumb, Mike Timlin, and Ricky Bones - all signed in the offseason before 1999. Frank Wren is the guy who made it possible for Syd Thrift to become GM by totally stinking up the joint. I'm sure he's doing a great job in Atlanta. Just look at the deal he gave BJ Upton. He'll be signing those checks for four more seasons. Good riddance.

In a statement released tonight, Orioles Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer Joseph Foss said Wren's firing came as the result of a meeting held Tuesday at Foss's request, in which Wren was confronted with "a season-long series of incidents involving a variety of personnel matters, both with front-office staff and players."

In one incident, described in detail in the release, Wren on Sept. 17 ordered a team plane to take off without superstar third baseman Cal Ripken, even though Ripken phoned ahead to say he was delayed in traffic.

"As a result of failing to resolve these issues, it was determined that Mr. Wren's employment could not longer be continued," Foss is quoted as saying in the release.

Angelos said in the release, "Regrettably, I must concur with the recommendation to terminate Mr. Wren's services and feel that the Orioles were left with no alternative."

Old grudges die hard.

[weams]

Of course it was sour grapes. On top of that, it was flat-out false. Angelos did not step in to nix Wren's deals for medical before they were final. Angelos began doing that AFTER Wren. Wren spent a lot of money, and failed miserably. We have him to that for Angelos' meddling, pinching pennies, and having a very stringent physical examination policy. My point is that Wren, of all people, had absolutely no business saying anything regarding the medical issues and did not have that experience himself. Wren's Hernadez mistake is the main cause for the Orioles' stringent medical policies.

I was ticked at Angelos at the time over Jon Miller and Davey Johnson, and remain ticked about how he mishandled those men, but Angelos had not intervened in medical issues at that time, and had actually shown a willingness to spend money. We were among the top payrolls in MLB.

For you to call me disingenuous and convenient (what?!) is totally uncalled-for, as well as false. Wren is being disingenuous. You are citing what Wren said, without bothering to see if Wren had himself experienced the medical issue, and using the present Balfour circumstance. You are the one taking advantage of a convenience here, not me.

Frank Wren is a Jim Bowden type. I would not trust him with our team. No matter how well respected he may be in those old boys club GM circles.

[russ snyder]

I get that they are bound by HIPPA to not disclose their reasons for rejecting the Balfour deal. I also think that is why its a tactic Pete has employed in the past (not passing the physical). Its convenient to not have to explain why you changed your mind if your Pete. Frank Wren was pretty clear about that and the fact that it was a favorite Angelos tactic. But I guess he just has it out for the O's like everyone else.

I don't expect Pete to dip in his own pockets to sign players and I do not expect to sign Choo, Ellsbury, Tanaka or top flight talent like that. If the Orioles cannot manage a payroll of 110-120 million with the market and MASN while still being profitable then someone there is a complete fool. I expect Pete who has pocketed profits year after year while saying when the time comes he would spend to do just that and be a man of his word. to put back into his team when the opportunity presents. . I amI continued to buy season tickets when this team sucked, I believed that when the time came they would reward that loyalty by giving us something to cheer about, giving us hope. Instead to this point they have poured gas on the bed and lit it ablaze IMO. I know buying tickets and merchandise is no big deal to you maybe but for my family we sacrificed other things cause we love baseball, love the O's players and hoped that he would be true to his word. I am disappointing, angry and frankly feel betrayed as a fan not willing to close my eyes and pretend like its all good. This man is a blight on a once proud franchise.

If this Balfour thing is nothing more than what the O's say it is, then Pete is nothing more than the little boy who cried wolf....finally he is telling the truth but nobody believes him. Why should they though when just about everything that has come out of his mouth regarding this team is an outright lie. You ask us for evidence, I submit there is 20+ yrs of evidence there in front of your face what this man is all about as an owner. If in this one case he is being upfront you will have to excuse me for not caring and not believing his lies anymore.

You obviously believe that the Orioles negotiated in bad faith with Balfour if you in fact believe that PA and the Orioles are using the HIPPa laws as a shielding tactic. Like yourself, Frank Wren can pop off all whe wants, but as Number 5 post points out, his incompetence helped put the Orioles in this position. Perhaps he should take some ownership of his past mistakes. No he'd rather pile on his former employers through the press.

Despite the team's improvement the past two years, you are a dissatisfied customer. IMO, Orioles fans have had a good bit to cheer about the past two seasons. Any financial sacrifices that you made regarding the Orioles are pretty much on you. You are correct, it's not a big deal to me because it's not my business to tell you how to spend your money. However, if his miserly and lying ways have been so consistent during this regime, why are you so disappointed, angry, and most curiously betrayed? In my earlier post, I acknowledged some of the regimes shortcomings ( 14 straight losing seasons, failure to allocate $ to players salary's, etc.) However, I think that the Orioles made a legitimate run at Balfour and that they made the best business and baseball decision for the club. Further, there is still time to add some other pieces to the team. The off season is not over.

Once again, the man and the orioles can't win. Even if passing on Balfour turns out to be the right decision, because of the past the guy is a miserly old liar. I submit that the Orioles have a track record of being extremely cautious when it comes to signing free agent pitchers. You have the right not to believe PA, but I have every right to give the organization the benefit of the doubt especially in this case.

[SteveO]

We don't want the Baseball Ghost of Christmas past showing up, he would try and get PA to trade off all the minority players and reinstate the reserve clause.

LMAO...... Though he may not be dead if the Ghost of Christmas Past could make itself look like Albert Belle....well that would be beyond funny. Syndey Ponson comes in a close second