Jeter to Retire After 2014 Season

[Mizerooskie]

He was an 8 win player (fWAR) in 1999; the highest of any position player. I personally don't think Jeter is overrated, as he's definitely one of the best shortstops of all time.

Like Boswell though, I take Ripken by a hair because his defense was so other-worldly.

Nick Markakis was nearly a 7 and a half win player in a season his career. Doesn't elevate him into any pantheon of all-time outfielders.

Jeter's won 4 Gold Gloves with a negative dWAR. He's ranked 193rd in all-time average WAR, which is around 14th among shortstops (depending how you want to consider old players that played all over the place). Some notable recent players that rank higher: Alan Trammell, Barry Larkin, Nomar Garciaparra.

He's only considered as highly as he is because of where he played his career, and the media (largely ESPN) hype that has resulted for that. This farewell tour is embarrassing. Where was it for Jeff Bagwell or Larry Walker, who were (among many contemporaries) significantly better players? It's an embarrassment on the sport.

I can't fathom how any Orioles fan doesn't consider him overrated. Cal won two MVPs, had 3 better WAR seasons than Jeter's best (two of them over ten wins), and wasn't just better defensively, was on the order of 45 wins better defensively over his career. The only way the 'by a hair' statement holds water is if it's measured lengthwise, and the hair is plucked from Rapunzel's head.

[Olson30]

He is/was a very good player.. What makes him great is that he is a Yankee.. :rolleyestf:

[Frobby]

It would be interesting to run a nationwide Jeter vs. Ripken poll and see what the results were. Of course, there is now a generation of fans who never saw Cal play, hard as that is to believe. But that poll would say a lot about whether Jeter is overrated or not. I think even his detractors would admit he's a deserving first ballot Hall of Famer, so the only way to determine if he's overrated is to see how the public perceives him compared to other Hall of Famers.

[raveoned]

I would echo the sentiments above, adding that he's also good looking and has an uncanny ability to turn an unworkable screenplay into box office gold.

What sucks is that he insists on it going uncredited.

[tettleton14]

It's fathomable if you don't consider WAR to be gospel. And WAR is a flawed system. If it weren't, the two sites that track it wouldn't have such large discrepancies.

For instance, per Jim Caple

"Who would you rather have had as your shortstop last year -- Derek Jeter (the All-Star Game starter and future Hall of Famer) or the Mariners' Brendan Ryan (who hit .194 with a .555 OPS)? Yes, this is a trick question. Because while any sane fan will pick Jeter (even with his ankle in a cast) over Ryan, baseball-reference gave Ryan a WAR of 3.3 last season and Jeter a WAR of 2.1, probably because Ryan is the superior fielder. FanGraphs' spread is just the opposite: Jeter at 3.2 and Ryan at 1.7."

I choose to not believe a formula can effectively, quantitatively define a player's importance. It's a tool, but it has flaws. To me, Jeter is an example of the system not working to gauge his effectiveness.

[Frobby]

He is/was a very good player.. What makes him great is that he is a Yankee.. :rolleyestf:

He's a first ballot Hall of Famer on merit. If he is overrated beyond that, it's because he played in NY and got an undue amount of the credit for the fact that the Yankees won so much while he played there. But that's not surprising, considering that the Yankees had been mediocre for nearly 15 years before he arrived and then were good for 20 years while he was there. He certainly contributed greatly to their winning so much, along with a few other home grown guys (Pettitte, Rivera, Posada) and a whole lot of store-bought talent.

[tettleton14]

Another example of WAR not working, in my opinion.

Currently, Fangraphs rates Alex Gordon as the fourth "best" — by WAR — player in baseball. This despite paltry traditional offensive numbers (.268, 9 HR, .425 SLG, .773 OPS, 6 SB) and the fact that he plays left field.

Now I admit I haven't seen him play much this year. But I just can't believe that he is, or has been, the 4th best player in baseball. Similar to how I believe Ben Zobrist was not the best player in baseball for a five-year span.

I don't discount WAR and I think it has its place. But it's not the be-all, end-all to me.

[DrungoHazewood]

Another example of WAR not working, in my opinion.

Currently, Fangraphs rates Alex Gordon as the fourth "best" ? by WAR ? player in baseball. This despite paltry traditional offensive numbers (.268, 9 HR, .425 SLG, .773 OPS, 6 SB) and the fact that he plays left field.

Now I admit I haven't seen him play much this year. But I just can't believe that he is, or has been, the 4th best player in baseball. Similar to how I believe Ben Zobrist was not the best player in baseball for a five-year span.

I don't discount WAR and I think it has its place. But it's not the be-all, end-all to me.

That's why they write things down and systematically evaluate those scribblings. Halfway paying attention to a Kansas City Royal may not be quite as accurate.

[Don_Aase_Fan]

Nick Markakis was nearly a 7 and a half win player in a season his career. Doesn't elevate him into any pantheon of all-time outfielders.

Point taken, but you asked if Jeter was ever a top 3 player at his position and the answer is "yes." 1999 being the foremost example; 2006 and 2009 are both great seasons as well.

Jeter's farewell tour is tiresome, no question, but hardly embarrassing. He's been a great player, the face of the biggest franchise, will be a first-ballot HOFer, and deserves his moment.

[backwardsk]

That's why they write things down and systematically evaluate those scribblings. Halfway paying attention to a Kansas City Royal may not be quite as accurate.

If you were asked to build a team to compete right now (money is not an obstacle) and you could select any five players before anyone else could select someone, would Alex Gordon even be on the radar?

[Redskins Rick]

If you were asked to build a team to compete right now (money is not an obstacle) and you could select any five players before anyone else could select someone, would Alex Gordon even be on the radar?

Sounds like Fantasy Baseball!

[tettleton14]

Alex Gordon is a perfectly decent player. Really. But 4th best in baseball?

WAR ranks Ben Zobrist as the most irreplaceable player in baseball from 2009-2014. Literally, his contributions were deemed to create more wins than ANYONE.

I've seen lots of Ben Zobrist, and he was a solid player. But nowhere NEAR the best. I can't fathom that he played better than any other player in baseball in that five-year period.

[DrungoHazewood]

If you were asked to build a team to compete right now (money is not an obstacle) and you could select any five players before anyone else could select someone, would Alex Gordon even be on the radar?

Probably not, since he's 30 and coming off a 4ish win season in 2013, and may not sustain his current pace this year. But more generally, yes, defensive metrics would certainly be an important input into my decision-making process. For exactly the reason we don't give silver slugger awards to the players who look great swinging the bat but have .690 OPSes, or refuse to give such awards to guys with ungainly batting stances and unorthodox swings who OPS .900. The eyes deceive. All the time.

[DrungoHazewood]

Alex Gordon is a perfectly decent player. Really. But 4th best in baseball?

WAR ranks Ben Zobrist as the most irreplaceable player in baseball from 2009-2014. Literally, his contributions were deemed to create more wins than ANYONE.

I've seen lots of Ben Zobrist, and he was a solid player. But nowhere NEAR the best. I can't fathom that he played better than any other player in baseball in that five-year period.

Again, that's why they do this data collection and analysis in a systematic and mostly objective manner. Jeff Francouer looks like a hell of a Major League ball player. But in reality he's the 7th-best hitter on the El Paso Chihuahuas.

[BMann]

Since Jeter and Ripken played their entire careers in the same division, another note of interest is that Jeter had the "advantage" of playing 282 games vs. the 1995-2014 Orioles (who have won 1,477 games during Jeter's 20-year career). Jeter enjoyed good stats (.301/.369/.436.805) against us. Cal, meanwhile, had to play 246 games against a Yankees team that won 1,725 games during Cal's 20-year run (1982-2001; I didn't include 1981 since Cal didn't play much). Cal's stats were OK (.266/.326/.436/.762) vs. NY, but obviously he was facing a much tougher team than his own O's (the Yanks had much better pitching) during at least half of those years. Meanwhile, Jeter got to feast on the woeful O's and their god-awful pitching for a big chunk of his career. Otherwise they played virtually the same schedule every year, so that's a big positive factor in Jeter's favor.