Jeter to Retire After 2014 Season

[scOtt]

20 years on top. And never a hint of controversy. Do you really need more?

[Can_of_corn]

20 years on top. And never a hint of controversy. Do you really need more?

There have been hints.

[waroriole]

There have been hints.

The swag to ladies is pretty bad ass. I mean, I hate the way the media builds him up and all, but I think that's pretty funny.

[OrangeJerseys]

Gift baskets.

[ShoelesJoe]

Substantially above average offensive Shortstop over an extremely long period of time.

And a substantially below average defensive shortstop over an extremely long period of time. So much so that a lot of Jeter's offensive value is cancelled out by all of the extra hits he allowed to opposition hitters. They should have moved him to the OF when Arod came on board, but Jeter's ego was more important to the Yankees than improving the team.

[24fps]

Refrigerated underwear.

[spiritof66]

He's been a great hitter for a very long time, and historically great for a shortstop. A leader on numerous WS teams and winners. Very durable. Thought by many to be a very good shortstop because of his penchant for making ordinary plays on balls hit into the hole look spectacular, his fielding of an errant throw and flip to nail a non-sliding Jeremy Giambi at the plate in 2001, and his catch of a foul ball in the stands against the Red Sox in 2004.

What I can't understand is that Jeter is constantly referred to as the ultimate team player, who always "played the game the right way" and serves as a model for ballplayers. In 2004, the Yankees traded for A-Rod, then a far superior defensive (and offensive) shortstop. By all accounts, Jeter insisted that he would remain the Yankees' SS -- he certainly didn't offer to consider moving -- and A-Rod was the good guy who volunteered to learn a new position, 3B. (I have wondered whether, if he had been installed at SS, A-Rod would have remained at a lighter weight to retain his range and agility, hit fewer home runs while getting on base more, and not have done some of those other things we later found out he did.) Even after the world, or some portions of it, caught on to the fact that Jeter was a mediocre to lousy defensive SS, and the suggestion was made that he learn a new position (2B and then, I think after Cano emerged, the OF), he stayed anchored at SS (and that's a pretty good metaphor for his defensive play). Wouldn't a team-first guy who "does things the right way" have volunteered to give another position a try, at least, in spring training, or during the off-season?

I have no doubt that Jeter's moving from SS, in favor of A-Rod or, later, to enable the Yanks to develop (read: sign as a free agent) a capable SS, would have made them a better team over the past decade. So thanks for that, Derek.

[Terpdawg32]

I'm having an argument with my buddies right now about Ripken and Jeter. I remember reading on this board some thread that basically broke down why Ripken was the better player, but I can't find it.

Would love to get some help arguing my points from the baseball geniuses on this board.

[Babypowder]

I'm having an argument with my buddies right now about Ripken and Jeter. I remember reading on this board some thread that basically broke down why Ripken was the better player, but I can't find it.

Would love to get some help arguing my points from the baseball geniuses on this board.

Adjusted for era, Jeter wasn't as much better offensively as the raw numbers suggest. Jeter is better by OPS+ 116 to 112. However, despite his ridiculous Gold Glove awards, Jeter was a well below average defensive shortstop. Ripken more than makes up the difference here. Fangraphs has Ripken at 310.1 runs above average defensively to Jeter's -24.4. This is why Ripken is much better by both fWAR (98.5 to 74.2) and rWAR (95.5 to 72.1).

[zxlkho]

Ripken was so much better defensively that it's really not even close. Jeter is a great player though.

[Orioles4Life21]

rWAR:

Ripken 95.5

Jeter 72.1

fWAR:

Ripken 92.5

Jeter- 74.2

Ripken's 8 best seasons by rWAR- 11.5, 10.0, 8.2, 7.5, 6.6, 6.6, 5.7, 5.5. Average of 7.7

Jeter- 8.0, 7.5, 6.5, 5.5, 5.2, 4.9, 4.6, 4.2. Average of 5.8

MVP's

Ripken- 2

Jeter- 0

Career defensive runs above average:

Ripken- 10

Jeter- -9

[Spy Fox]

Whether you can convince them that Cal was better depends on how much your buddies believe in defense.

On offense alone there's a strong argument that Jeter was the better player. Cal had more power and a lot more HRs but Jeter has a big advantage in AVG/OBP and a higher career OPS and OPS+. Jeter will end his career with about 300 more hits than Cal despite playing in about 300 less games.

But defensively Cal was so much better than Jeter that there is no debate. Cal was transcendent as a fielder at SS. Jeter's famous jump/throw plays helped him get a good reputation as a fielder for most of his career, which helped him win a couple gold gloves, but the stats show he was never actually very effective as a defender because of his below average range. The last few years especially Jeter has been a liability in the field, while Cal switched to 3b during his declining seasons so his defense did not deteriorate as much.

If you want the simplest argument, Cal had 95 career WAR and Jeter has 72, which is in my mind a big enough gap to be convincing even if you are only halfway a believer in WAR.

[Orioles4Life21]

Also, Ripken was number one in total zone runs in the AL as a SS in 1984, 1989, 1990, 1991, and 1994. Jeter's highest finish was 4th in 2004.

[Orioles4Life21]

I'm sure your Jeter fanboy friends are just like mine though and will blow off any advanced metric you throw at them.

[Orioles4Life21]

To make a long story short, Jeter may have a slight edge over Cal offensively, but Cal is in a different stratosphere defensively.