Jeter to Retire After 2014 Season

[MagicBird]

Jeter is, by far, the most overrated current player from a historical standpoint.

Was he even a top-3 player at his position at any point in his career?

He very well may be the most overrated player in the history of pro sports. Most just have some view of greatness perpetuated by mediots and they have drunk the Kool-Aid. Its pointless to even discuss it.

I was talking about Jeter being overrated and the person I was speaking with went on to tell me that NO, Roger Staubach was the most overrated player in sports history. I didnt say another word. Totally pointless.

[LA2]

So I just want to get this straight: Wainwright was really trying to pitch well against Trout and Cabrera and they creamed his pitches anyway, right?

[sfosfan]

Lets be fair. Wainright LATER APOLOGIZED for even inferring he "grooved one" to Jeter and now completely distances himself from the implication. Additionally, it still takes talent to hit a fastball at 92 MPH and no amount of love for Ripken should undervalue what Jeter did last night and for the game for the last two decades.Jeter was and is a class act and no amount of Oriole love should attempt to diminish that. Period.

Well yes, ok. But the whole point is Adam never should have opened his mouth to begin with so who cares if he apologized? Did the guy who served up that same pitch to Cal in his last AS Game ever speak about it?Well said regarding Jeter. Jeter, as much as I hate the MFYs, is hard to hate. I hate that about him.

[DrungoHazewood]

Hogwash. Alex Gordon would not be in the top 30 players selected by any knowledgeable GM or Manager. From 30 to 4 is a pretty wide spread. Those in the pocket protector crowd that want to defend WAR have to jettison defensive figures. They are less then worthless and lead to Alex Gordon having the 4th best WAR. No matter how hard the tape on the glasses gang tries, defensive stats will never be worth the paper or computer they are written on. The sad part for those that believe in these metrics, is that defensive stats drag down their whole argument. It reminds of when a political party has a wing nut in their party. They know he is a wing nut but can't say anything about him for fear of being called a traitor. It drags the whole party down. Give up defensive metrics, it drags the whole party down.

Nothing has advanced the quest for human knowledge more than those who look at scientific endeavor and those engaged in the objective search for truth and exclaim "Hogwash, you nerds." If I want to know how the universe works I don't go for no high falutin' book learnin', I go talk to whoever is sittin' on the nail keg down at the general store and strike me up a conversation.

[Frobby]

He very well may be the most overrated player in the history of pro sports. Most just have some view of greatness perpetuated by mediots and they have drunk the Kool-Aid. Its pointless to even discuss it.

I was talking about Jeter being overrated and the person I was speaking with went on to tell me that NO, Roger Staubach was the most overrated player in sports history. I didnt say another word. Totally pointless.

I'd vote for Joe Namath.

[Number5]

Ripken, hands down. But that is not to say that Jeter hasn't been great. He has. Remember 'the flip." One of the most amazing plays I ever saw.

[video=youtube;ApoJk9X7Vto]

[sfosfan]

I know that this is an Orioles board, but he deserves it.

Did Cal get fat pitches to hit at 2130 and 2131? Did he get fat pitches in his last all star game? I was sitting 6 rows behind home plate for Cal's last game and I guarantee you that they were throwing batting practice to the man. He didn't hit a HR then (he really was done at that point), but I'd bet my last dollar that Cal got exactly the same treatment, or more, that Jeter's getting now.

That's what the all-time great ambassadors for the game should get, especially in an All Star game.

I have to agree about the 2131 game. Not so sure on 2130, but maybe if I saw it again I'll be convinced too. Nothing wrong with giving guys like Jeter and Ripken a nice present- nobody disagrees with that. Just don't brag about it afterwards the way Adam did. And I think Adam even made it worse when he tried to "apologize" because he wasn't honest. OF COURSE he served up a fat pitch to Jeter, but he didn't say that in his apology because the game means something, and he didn't want to p.o. his teammates I guess. I wish he would have said something like: "I served up the best pitch I could, trying to strike out a future hall of famer"- at least then he covers himself (even though it'd be total bs).

[DrungoHazewood]

He's a first ballot Hall of Famer on merit.

But, at least if he didn't have the full season's worth of postseason play thanks to Steinbrenner's money, his case is no stronger than Bill Dahlen or Alan Trammell or Lou Whitaker or Bobby Grich. Who not only weren't first ballot, they're not even in. Jeter is being talked about as being the first unanimous selection. Alan Trammell was just as good and he's hoping he lives long enough for the Vet's Committee to get around to him in 2030.

But it's not much different than Phil Rizzuto - he's in because he's a Yank with a lot of rings. Even though there might be 15 better/eligible shortstops who aren't in.

[PA724_Oriole]

I have to agree about the 2131 game. Not so sure on 2130, but maybe if I saw it again I'll be convinced too. Nothing wrong with giving guys like Jeter and Ripken a nice present- nobody disagrees with that. Just don't brag about it afterwards the way Adam did. And I think Adam even made it worse when he tried to "apologize" because he wasn't honest. OF COURSE he served up a fat pitch to Jeter, but he didn't say that in his apology because the game means something, and he didn't want to p.o. his teammates I guess. I wish he would have said something like: "I served up the best pitch I could, trying to strike out a future hall of famer"- at least then he covers himself (even though it'd be total bs).

This is where we disagree. If he lied about it even though it was obvious, he'd be getting ridiculed even more on top of the fact he gave him a gift.

I do agree that nothing should have been said in the first place.

But I'd rather the guy own up to it when everyone knew already.

To me, I have a bigger desk that the guy got a five minute ovation which delayed the game when he arguably shouldn't have been there.

If we can make an exception for a great payer to be at the All Star Dane when he wasnt deserving THAT YEAR. Then why are ppl making a big deal over one pitch in this same game.

But in today's age ppl love to complain. And everyone who is saying he shouldn't have threw him a meatball would be saying Wainwright is a AZZ had he struck him out instead.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Jeter was the superior offensive player, especially when you account for speed.

Cal's defense was likely overrated by Total Zone Rating, therefore his WAR is likely overstated to some degree. That said, I have read quite a few articles/studies that indicate Jeter was also actually overrated by Total Zone Rating as well. Basically, he was worse (maybe significantly) than his pretty horrible numbers already indicate. A lot of people, even analysts, were propagandized by ESPN / Jeter Jump highlights over the years to think that he was a good defender. Good enough to win multiple good gloves even. He was pretty inarguably a poor defender and while jumping and throwing from the SS position may look good at times, it isn't such a great idea.

That said, he's a deserving first ballot Hall of Famer imo. I'm guessing (considering the extent of his career) he will e at the top of the list in offensive production at his position.

[Can_of_corn]

Jeter was the superior offensive player, especially when you account for speed.

Cal's defense was likely overrated by Total Zone Rating, therefore his WAR is likely overstated to some degree. That said, I have read quite a few articles/studies that indicate Jeter was also actually overrated by Total Zone Rating as well. Basically, he was worse (maybe significantly) than his pretty horrible numbers already indicate. A lot of people, even analysts, were propagandized by ESPN / Jeter Jump highlights over the years to think that he was a good defender. Good enough to win multiple good gloves even. He was pretty inarguably a poor defender.

That said, he's a deserving first ballot Hall of Famer imo.

He should have moved to the outfield when Arod joined then team. Then everyone would be comping him to Molitor, who is a much better comp.

[raveoned]

Beyond the numbers, did he have any enemies in the press? If no or very few, then that will also help his case for getting in first ballot and almost unanimously.

[CA-ORIOLE]

For those dissing Zobrist, don't forget WAR is a counting stat. Time on the field counts, and he has played almost every game, every year since 2009. Not only that, he normally bats near the top of the order. If he's matched up against guys with more injuries (less time on the field) and batting lower in the order he is going to get an advantage in the count.

Interestingly, Zobrist's WAR (as good as it is) has almost certainly been degraded by playing many games in corner OF and SS over the years. If he had played exclusively at 2b (where he's been an elite defender and/or gets the better positional advantage), the WAR count would be at least marginally higher.

I agree with another poster who basically said that WAR helps you appreciate the value of a Ben Zobrist. Without it, he'd be a guy that would otherwise go under-valued and under-appreciated.

[CA-ORIOLE]

He should have moved to the outfield when Arod joined then team. Then everyone would be comping him to Molitor, who is a much better comp.

Yeah, or maybe 2b. I thought he had a shot at 4,000 hits at one time. Pete Rose wasn't very good for a long time while he was piling up hits.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Yeah, so what about his "womanizing". More power to him. At least he's not married and womanizing. Not that players personal lives matter to me anyways.