New to the forum, and a question

[El Gordo]

I was an early critic of AJ for all the obvious reasons. But he works hard plays the game well and is a team leader, and now I am firmly in his corner. He's not the perfect ballplayer, maybe only Trout is, but he's pretty damn good and I'm glad he's on our team. As for his slider problem. it's not unlike Ted Striker's drinking problem. He can't help himself, and it has become almost endearing, IMO:

[Frobby]

AJ is vastly superior to Markakis in almost every aspect of the game. IMO, AJ gets more grief because many of us believe that he could be even better "if only he didn't..." Well, as you said, he's got his flaws, and maybe he is what he is. But he's far and away the best player on the Orioles until Davis' power comes back and/or a healthy Machado returns to the lineup.

Markakis, on the other hand, is just...persistently disappointing. Steady, for the most part, but entirely unspectacular...and, unlike with AJ, I think most of us have given up on Markakis raising his ceiling.

There is no longer any reason to think that Markakis will ever be as good as Jones again. I will say this, though: the 2008 version of Markakis is a level Jones has never reached, and I don't know if he ever will: 7.4 rWAR, 6.1 fWAR, .897 OPS, .392 wOBA. Jones has never come near any of those numbers. But hopefully he can play at his peak level for a lot longer than Nick did.

[MrOrange82]

There is no longer any reason to think that Markakis will ever be as good as Jones again. I will say this, though: the 2008 version of Markakis is a level Jones has never reached, and I don't know if he ever will: 7.4 rWAR, 6.1 fWAR, .897 OPS, .392 wOBA. Jones has never come near any of those numbers. But hopefully he can play at his peak level for a lot longer than Nick did.

Given that Nick's "peak" lasted for exactly two seasons (2006 and 2007), I think it'll be safe to say at the end of this season that AJ has already performed at peak levels for longer. Nick's 2007 was an extreme outlier. Nothing more. AJ will probably have one of those before it's all said and done for him. Thankfully, AJ's "normal" seems to be a heckuva lot better than Nick's.

[flyhighbirds]

Markakis has been battling injuries including a neck injury. I don't think it's fair to say he has been stealing money. If the op is going to say it's racist to criticize Jones, then why isn't it racist to criticize Markakis. I think this is a totally ridiculous thread.

[Frobby]

Markakis has been battling injuries including a neck injury. I don't think it's fair to say he has been stealing money. If the op is going to say it's racist to criticize Jones, then why isn't it racist to criticize Markakis. I think this is a totally ridiculous thread.

I don't, even though I think 97% of the criticism of Jones is color-blind, and most if not all of the remaining 3% is not intentionally based on race .

My eyes were opened a few years ago when I learned that a study of African American lawyers in big law firms revealed that over 90% reported that, at one time or another, they had been mistaken for someone who worked as a member of the staff. I guarantee you 90% of white attorneys never had that experience. And I'm sure the people who mistskenly assumed these attorneys were members of the staff weren't overtly racist, even though they made a race-based assumption.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Game thread comments have to be taken with a huge grain of salt, you know.

While this is true, I feel like some people hide behind this reasoning for flat out stupid posts. There's a fine line between venting and irrational drivel IMO. The former can be fun, spark discussion, etc. while the latter provides little to no value IMO. To be clear, though, I think the vast majority of such posts on the OH fall into the venting category.

On Adam, I see the OPs point/observation, but at this point I think most criticism falls in the aforementioned "he's so close to being an MVP type player" frustration category. What I don't get is the small majority that seems upset with him winning the GG. I get thinking there was someone who may have been more deserving, but to be seemingly bothered by it is odd to me. It's not hard to reconcile objective acknowledgement of other deserving candidates and appreciating the national recognition for an oriole all star. I mean, it's not as though homers on the OH are voting on this.

tl;dr: most around here like jones and most criticism is founded in how he can take the next step rather than dislike.

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[Redskins Rick]

I don't, even though I think 97% of the criticism of Jones is color-blind, and most if not all of the remaining 3% is not intentionally based on race .

My eyes were opened a few years ago when I learned that a study of African American lawyers in big law firms revealed that over 90% reported that, at one time or another, they had been mistaken for someone who worked as a member of the staff. I guarantee you 90% of white attorneys never had that experience. And I'm sure the people who mistskenly assumed these attorneys were members of the staff weren't overtly racist, even though they made a race-based assumption.

I agree with your first sentence, 97% of the criticism of Jones is color-blind.

There is plenty of criticism of all the Oriole players on this board, too much so, at times, IMO. None of it, is because of the race card.

At times, it's almost like our children, most of us that have children, will understand this. There are times, when a parent can be more critical of our children of how they behave and mess up on the sports field, we don't mean to be, but we want them to do good.

We have that same type of relationship with "Our Guys". We can yell, curse, shake our head, flame some keys on the keyboard, but that's "our guys"!

[Eutaw]

Is it a racial thing? I don't get it.

Yes. Everyone on here has a bias towards giving Greeks praise where it is not due.

[brooks1083]

I guess I'm just nieve since I'm white and I don't think about it (this statement wasn't meant to be tongue-in-cheek, it was an honest assessment of myself). I grew up in a school system where I was the minority. I think it was something like 65% black. It doesn't matter what race you are, every one are gonna have some people that are tremendous jerks and some that are great, contributing members of society. Anyway, I don't really want to discuss this because I feel like keeping these discussions helps keep it alive, just don't talk about it and let it die.

To the OP point though, I don't think Markakis gets any preferential treatment. Like many have mentioned, Markakis gets blasted for his drop in power and lack of doubles just like Jones gets blasted for the low and away slider. Given the two option and their salaries, I would much prefer Jones right now.

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[TonySoprano]

Face of the Franchise, Adam Jones, 77%. Clearly his race kept him from 100%..or not. I have to temper my remarks, but I get frustrated when some people assume ALL criticism must be based on skin tone and not actual performance. In that atmosphere, the race card gets shamelessly dropped as a way of intimidating or silencing criticism. I judge people on results...period.

Find me a player who hasn't taken his share of grief on this forum. You'd almost have to have an agenda to assume that Markakis didn't get roasted because of his disappearing bat trick last season. In 2013, NOBODY came close to the vitriol that Jim Johnson generated. Bring up Mike Mussina around here and the only color people care about is how he traded in the black and orange for the navy blue pinstripes.

[weams]

I think you should probably read the forum a bit more because Markakis takes his load of guff around here. As for Jones, honestly, I think most people really like Jones. Sure, he has some bad ABs and can drop some balls, but I doubt there are many people on this forum that would want to get rid of him. Personally, I think he'll end up one of the best Orioles All-time.

We are fortunate to have had him. Pretty good take in my eyes.

[MrOrange82]

Face of the Franchise, Adam Jones, 77%. Clearly his race kept him from 100%..or not. I have to temper my remarks, but I get frustrated when some people assume ALL criticism must be based on skin tone and not actual performance. In that atmosphere, the race card gets shamelessly dropped as a way of intimidating or silencing criticism. I judge people on results...period.

Find me a player who hasn't taken his share of grief on this forum. You'd almost have to have an agenda to assume that Markakis didn't get roasted because of his disappearing bat trick last season. In 2013, NOBODY came close to the vitriol that Jim Johnson generated. Bring up Mike Mussina around here and the only color people care about is how he traded in the black and orange for the navy blue pinstripes.

I don't judge people based on race, but I judge Zooks for eating buttered bread like neanderthals.

Incidentally, Googling a line from The Butter Battle Book led me to the Wikipedia page for "the buttered cat paradox," which, of course, struck me as hilarious because I am, in fact, a mental infant.

[weams]

Hey everyone, I'm just curious. It seems like some people in this town and on this forum refuse to give Adam Jones any credit. Here's a guy who's won 3 Gold Gloves as a center fielder, hits for power drives in runs, has really become involved with the community, and is the clubhouse leader. Yet some people keep whining about him. He chases too many pitches, he blows bubbles in center field, he talks too much trash, etc.

Meanwhile Markakis is in right field stealing the teams money. He hits about .280-.285, below average power, basically just draws a bunch of walks and hits mostly bases empty doubles. IMHO he doesn't provide nearly enough offense for his position or his salary. But he gets a free pass from everyone, including the local media. I remember Jim Palmer comparing Markakis to George Brett. Are you serious? On his best day Markakis isn't half the player Brett was. But the fans here love him, he doesn't get half the flak Jones does, even though Jones is a helluva lot better player.

What am I missing here? Is it a racial thing? I don't get it.

Welcome to the forum. Please take tome to read this. I think you are reading a very few posters who do not appreciate that Adam is not a advanced statistical superstar, and instead just a superstar. I think you were a bit off in the direction you took in the post. Just my opinion.

[weams]

I was an early critic of AJ for all the obvious reasons. But he works hard plays the game well and is a team leader, and now I am firmly in his corner. He's not the perfect ballplayer, maybe only Trout is, but he's pretty damn good and I'm glad he's on our team. As for his slider problem. it's not unlike Ted Striker's drinking problem. He can't help himself, and it has become almost endearing, IMO:

In the end, Ted gets the girl

[Nolanseye14]

I think the majority of this board likes Adam Jones. There is no doubt that he is one of the better center fielders in the game. He's just frustrating because you can see the potential for him to be an elite player. As is he is a slightly better version of Mike Cameron.

Nick might not catch the same grief because the expectations are no longer there. He doesn't have the same potential as Jones.