Hardy confused from lack of extension talk

[Stotle]

Are you sure you are right? OR is it Always about the money, or setting themselves up for the right situation to assure the most money? I've never seen it proven otherwise. With the handful of exceptions that there are to any absolute. To try to influence the position of those that are truly in the .5 percent group is a poor use of efforts i am afraid. When the dialog becomes one of it not being about the money, I can assure that agents in the business are agents because they get a fair AAV for their clients, and that is rarely a good deal for ownership.

That said, I am uncertain that Dan spent his Ubaldo money wisely.

Yeah I am sure. It does happen a lot that a player decides on one team out of a couple of close suitors and gives a number/years he'll sign for and simply doesn't give anyone else the opportunity to match. It's rare a player signs for the least amount of money, but the amount of money is often a product of the player already having made his decision.

[weams]

I just watched their Low A club -- gotta say I don't disagree with the org's approach to acquiring talent. Developing it might be another question.

Fair points. All of them today. Thanks for your availability and your adding more than armchair speculation to our discussions.

[Stotle]

Fair points. All of them today. Thanks for your availability and your adding more than armchair speculation to our discussions.

They really swung and missed on Reyes and Johnson, huh? I feel really bad for them.

[weams]

You keep saying this, but I'm not sure everything is stemming from optimism. Maybe from weams, yes. But there are some legitimate reasons to view this in a light that isn't purely negative. None of us really know much for certain, so both sides have good points here. Just saying, let's not pin it all on our individual kool aid levels.

You know, I have been on this planet for a while and I have seen the outcome of positive and negative re-enforcement up close and personal. I prefer to have a hope, rather than to dread today. And tomorrow. You get what you get in this life, and in it, there is no prize at the end.

By the way, we have been a winning team lately. A generation of Oriole fans before that could never say the same. Sometime it is good to be happy with you have and with what you can reasonably obtain.

Sometimes being negative only hurts you, and those around you.

[Stotle]

You know, I have been on this planet for a while and I have seen the outcome of positive and negative re-enforcement up close and personal. I prefer to have a hope, rather than to dread today. And tomorrow. You get what you get in this life, and in it, there is no prize at the end.

There damn well better be a nice retirement at the end!

[weams]

They really swung and missed on Reyes and Johnson, huh? I feel really bad for them.

Yep. Yep.

[weams]

Believe me, I am not knocking you. I 100% agree with this comment. And I enjoy your calming positive presence in threads like this.

Thanks friend.

[weams]

There damn well better be a nice retirement at the end!

Yeah. But unless you are a real fortunate type of person, there is that age thing... Not everyone can be BobMc.

[weams]

Fair enough, that makes sense.

We will just have to see. I ride the fence on this one. I think it would be silly to not be wary of the Orioles with things like this, despite their 2 recent winning seasons, and despite some quality folks in the FO. There's just so much history that 2 good years cannot yet erase. On the other hand, agents tend to muck things up, even for the best run organizations. No organization is without occasional player drama, hard as they might try to avoid it.

Hey. At least we don't have the face of our franchise pealing off half way to first and begging out of games to keep a mini hit streak alive. And we have no one who demolishes phones with no repercussions either. We are blessed.

[POR]

I think that Jhonny Peralta's contract is going to make it very difficult for the Orioles to sign Hardy. Peralta is the exact same age as Hardy and got $52 million for four years. Hardy is a signficantly better defensive player, slightly better offensive player and does not have the steroid stigma. From Hardy's camp perspective why after giving the Orioles a nice hometown discount the last three years should he settle for something like 3 years at $30 million when he is a better player than Peralta? In addition, the Yankees will be the market for a shortstop this year.

Without any inside knowledge I wonder if the contract negotiations consisted of Hardy's agent bringing up Peralta's contract and the Orioles being scared away.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think you are being loose with "want". It sounds like what you are really saying is "I'm sure Wieters, Hardy and Davis want to sign extensions here for the right price/years." Building relationships with players/agents is about making sure the variables that go into the decision are about more than the bottom line. Money and years ALWAYS matter. It's incorrect to think that the player/agent simply pulls out a calculator and computes the best years/money offer and goes to that team.

Sometimes the money/years is too good to pass up. Usually there are a couple similar deals and the player goes where he feels comfortable (and that comfort comes in part from his agent -- which is why you want agents saying nice things about you and your org).

We usually communicate well, but we're off here today for some reason:

We're not going to make deals that don't make sense for us and are probably going to be pretty damn analytical about that. The agents may not be pulling out calculators when making proposals, but we probably are when considering them. There may or may not be similar deals on the table for certain players in free agency but that doesn't mean we should be in that group if it doesn't make sense for us.

Am I clear?

[Frobby]

Are you sure you are right? OR is it Always about the money, or setting themselves up for the right situation to assure the most money? I've never seen it proven otherwise.

I do not think it is always about the money, especially when it comes to staying with a team and in a city with which you are comfortable. Obviously, money is always a very important factor, and for some players, it is just about the only important factor, but I think there are lots of players who place value on staying in an environment they like.

[Stotle]

We usually communicate well, but we're off here today for some reason:

We're not going to make deals that don't make sense for us and are probably going to be pretty damn analytical about that. The agents may not be pulling out calculators when making proposals, but we probably are when considering them. There may or may not be similar deals on the table for certain players in free agency but that doesn't mean we should be in that group if it doesn't make sense for us.

Am I clear?

Crystal.

But again I go back to that being evidence of not "wanting" that player (albeit for that price).

To get us back on track, let me attempt to more clearly restate my concern:

I fear that the FO's tactics/approach may sour players/agents on the organization, and as a result the reputation of the FO could limit the FO's ability to execute its desired strategy.

[Babypowder]

I think that Jhonny Peralta's contract is going to make it very difficult for the Orioles to sign Hardy. Peralta is the exact same age as Hardy and got $52 million for four years. Hardy is a signficantly better defensive player, slightly better offensive player and does not have the steroid stigma. From Hardy's camp perspective why after giving the Orioles a nice hometown discount the last three years should he settle for something like 3 years at $30 million when he is a better player than Peralta? In addition, the Yankees will be the market for a shortstop this year.

Without any inside knowledge I wonder if the contract negotiations consisted of Hardy's agent bringing up Peralta's contract and the Orioles being scared away.

I'd like to see a defense of this statement. Peralta has the higher career OPS, wOBA, and wRC+. Peralta is coming off an .815 OPS in 2013 to Hardy's .738. Hardy is not a better offensive player than Peralta. It's really not a slam dunk that he's a better player at all.

[weams]

I'd like to see a defense of this statement. Peralta has the higher career OPS, wOBA, and wRC+. Peralta is coming off an .815 OPS in 2013 to Hardy's .738. Hardy is not a better offensive player than Peralta. It's really not a slam dunk that he's a better player at all.

I am concerned about his PED use. And his start to his new contract. Admittedly SSS and Hardy has been injured. I know which player I would rather have for that deal. And it's really neither of them.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/peraljh01.shtml#standard_fielding::none