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Is it a stretch to think that Joseph could replicate the offensive output that Wieters has averaged?

MarkakisFan21

By MarkakisFan21
in Orioles Talk

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WV O's Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

WV O's

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Last year Caleb Joseph was 13th in the Eastern League in OPS, and 11 of the 12 players ahead of him were younger. Some by as much as seven years. He was clearly outplayed by Xander Bogaerts and Maikel Franco, who were both in the same league and 20 years old. Joseph also played more games at other positions than he did catcher. Coming into 2014 if someone had said Joseph would be, on a per-game basis while playing 100ish games, one of the most valuable catchers in baseball you would have been laughed off the messageboard.

It is very rare for someone who was a) drafted out of college and subsequently b) spent most of four years in AA, to then become a solid major league player.

Not sure if this is trying to negate what I said or not.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Not sure if this is trying to negate what I said or not.

You said he had a great year last year. I'm saying that the standards for calling a season "great" when you're a 27-year-old four-time AA repeater are very high. For me, a 27-year-old AA veteran's season would only be great if he was Ruthian - he'd have to totally dominate the league.

It's commonplace for a player in his mid-to-late 20s in AA to put up great-looking numbers and not be a prospect at all. Remember Luis Montanez? .586 career MLB OPS, but at 26 he was one of the best players in the EL, OPSing .986. Or Jorge Vazquez. At 27 for the Yank's AA team in Trenton he OPS'd .935. Zero MLB ABs. In 2010 Tagg Bozied OPS'd over 1.000 in a full AA season at age 30. Never played in the Majors. The Nats had a guy named Bill Rhinehart, had a Joseph-like progression in AA spending parts of five years there. In his 4th season in AA, at 26, he OPSed .963. He's never played in the majors. In 2012 Rhyne Hughes OPSed .874 for the Baysox at 28, better than Joseph did last year. He's now out of baseball with a career MLB line of 10-for-47.

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WV O's Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

WV O's

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You said he had a great year last year. I'm saying that the standards for calling a season "great" when you're a 27-year-old four-time AA repeater are very high. For me, a 27-year-old AA veteran's season would only be great if he was Ruthian - he'd have to totally dominate the league.

It's commonplace for a player in his mid-to-late 20s in AA to put up great-looking numbers and not be a prospect at all. Remember Luis Montanez? .586 career MLB OPS, but at 26 he was one of the best players in the EL, OPSing .986. Or Jorge Vazquez. At 27 for the Yank's AA team in Trenton he OPS'd .935. Zero MLB ABs. In 2010 Tagg Bozied OPS'd over 1.000 in a full AA season at age 30. Never played in the Majors. The Nats had a guy named Bill Rhinehart, had a Joseph-like progression in AA spending parts of five years there. In his 4th season in AA, at 26, he OPSed .963. He's never played in the majors. In 2012 Rhyne Hughes OPSed .874 for the Baysox at 28, better than Joseph did last year. He's now out of baseball with a career MLB line of 10-for-47.

Fair enough. I see your point.

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Ruzious Hangout Grand Counsel

Ruzious

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Just struck out with the bases loaded and one out

I'm not sure he will even stick as the backup next year.

Still a great story for 2014

Sometimes he does look like a 28 year old rookie just up from AA. Still, his ability to handle the pitchers and play defense make him an asset as a good backup catcher who can hit a little - though he's quite streaky.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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He's fine as a backup. His defense and framing have more then enough value. As does the fact that he will be making the league minimum.

The median OPS among the 48 catchers with 50-350 PAs is .605. There are 16 catchers with 100+ PAs and a lower OPS than Joseph. With his defense he should stay in the majors in some role for quite a while.

Jose Molina has played about half of the Rays' games despite slugging .187. Yes, yes, I know his framing is worth 445 runs per 150 games.

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Bahama O's Fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Bahama O's Fan

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I know we are comparing a SSS with Joseph, but his OPS in the majors is .637, and his minor league OPS is .753. Wieters is .743 over his major league career. Will Joseph replace Wieters offensively? No, probably not, at least not what we have seen so far. Is he able to replace him defensively? Yes, and arguably better. Now, the crux of the conversation is the cost. Would you rather have Wieters for his contract that he will get in the open market next offseason or Joseph plus someone else for that money?

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I know we are comparing a SSS with Joseph' date=' but his OPS in the majors is .637, and his minor league OPS is .753. Wieters is .743 over his major league career. Will Joseph replace Wieters offensively? No, probably not, at least not what we have seen so far. Is he able to replace him defensively? Yes, and arguably better. Now, the crux of the conversation is the cost. Would you rather have Wieters for his contract that he will get in the open market next offseason or Joseph plus someone else for that money?[/quote']

By next offseason do you mean the 2015-2016 off season?

Because Wieters isn't on the open market until then.

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