Have we sacrificed too much the last 2 seasons trying to be in "win now" mode?

[weams]

Dan Duquette left Theo a very good situation. Would you even deny that?

I know Theo's your boy, and I've never heard you say a bad word about the man. (Remember the Carl Crawford conversation we had on sunspot?) I don't think it diminishes his success in Boston to say he took over an enviable situation.

Of course Dan did. But it was Theo who got rid of Garciaparra and got Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz. They made all the difference on that team. Dan was required to keep Nomar. Theo is doing good things out in Chicago. If he gets them a World Championship before he dies out in Chicago, he will be to best front office guy in history.

[Pickles]

Pretty sure that is a plan.

Hmmm.

So wait and see is an effective plan?

[Reboulet'sStache]

They didn't extend Elsbury and they went from a World Series champion to being in last place in the American League East not sure that is a success story. Maybe they should have kept him because right now the way Bradley is playing they are going to have to sign someone else to play there because he can't hit with a thing. They let Drew go for a bit then end up singing him for the same amount prorated and now have a hole at SS still and Bogaerats now doesn't look that great offensively and defensively even worse at SS for the future. They have some extra money comming off the books is true but have only two starters In Buckholz and De la rosa no catcher a question at third and SS and Shane Victorina and a few guys that haven proven a thing. They are going to need a bunch of money just to get back to where the were in free agency.

You aren't going to be dominate every year. They shouldn't really be judged under that. The Sox won a World Series last year, they probably felt that bought them some good will, so now was the time to start bridging towards the future. Sounds reasonable enough to me.

And I wouldn't give up on Bradley too soon. His defense at CF is so good, I don't think he is going to need THAT much bat.

And because Boston put so much into building up their farm, they won't need to spend all that money on FAs. Boston is going to have the luxury of promoting some and trading some for another team's big time player that they want to cash in on. Then they can sign some in FA.

[weams]

You aren't going to be dominate every year. They shouldn't really be judged under that. The Sox won a World Series last year' date=' they probably felt that bought them some good will, so now was the time to start bridging towards the future. Sounds reasonable enough to me.

And I wouldn't give up on Bradley too soon. His defense at CF is so good, I don't think he is going to need THAT much bat.

And because Boston put so much into building up their farm, they won't need to spend all that money on FAs. Boston is going to have the luxury of promoting some and trading some for another team's big time player that they want to cash in on. Then they can sign some in FA.[/quote']

Na. They just screwed up. And they weren't that good last year. Just incredibly lucky.

[Pickles]

Of course Dan did. But it was Theo who got rid of Garciaparra and got.Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz. They made all the difference on that team. Dan was required to keep Nomar. Theo is doing good things out in Chicago. If he gets them a World Championship before he dies out in Chicago, he will be to best front office guy in history.

I'd say Schilling, Martinez, Ortiz, Ramirez, Damon, etc. etc. were far more important "difference makers" thank Cabrerea and Mientkiewicz. Though that was a ballsy, big trade.

I'm not trying to say Theo isn't a good FO man. He clearly is.

But I think DD is every bit in his league.

[weams]

I'd say Schilling, Martinez, Ortiz, Ramirez, Damon, etc. etc. were far more important "difference makers" thank Cabrerea and Mientkiewicz. Though that was a ballsy, big trade.

I'm not trying to say Theo isn't a good FO man. He clearly is.

But I think DD is every bit in his league.

Cabrera got them through to the point that Millar's walk was relevant.

[Pickles]

You aren't going to be dominate every year. They shouldn't really be judged under that. The Sox won a World Series last year' date=' they probably felt that bought them some good will, so now was the time to start bridging towards the future. Sounds reasonable enough to me.

And I wouldn't give up on Bradley too soon. His defense at CF is so good, I don't think he is going to need THAT much bat.

And because Boston put so much into building up their farm, they won't need to spend all that money on FAs. Boston is going to have the luxury of promoting some and trading some for another team's big time player that they want to cash in on. Then they can sign some in FA.[/quote']

I love how you make excuse after excuse for the Red Sox, and continually try to pillar the O's.

When the Red Sox have a "down year" it's you can't dominate every year.

When the O's are leading the division, and in the midst of their third straight competitive season, it's "bad times are coming because they don't have a plan."

Interesting perspective.

[Reboulet'sStache]

Hmmm.

So wait and see is an effective plan?

Isn't that all anybody can do? Nothing is guaranteed. All you can do is create a situation where the odds are in your favor, then sit back and hope the cards fall your way.

Boston had a plan. Buildup their farm system. They have done that and then some. They made moves to get out of their bad contracts, and avoided getting themselves into more bad ones. It all seemed to be geared towards this farm they had put so much into, paying off (and somehow they won a WS in their midst of their rebuild).

They can't guarantee the strategy they employed will work, but that's true of anyone.

[bpilktree]

Elsbury is the one of the guys that they should have built around though and not let hit free agency. They should have gave him an extension a year or so ago and then used him in their core and would not have cost them much so they didn't get in the spot they were at in the off season to having to bid against the Yanks. If they gave him a contract in 2012 they could have kept him through 33-34 and had his better years then once you have a guy that has proven himself can take over in 2016 or so. You don't do what they did and just say well this guy hasn't played much in the majors and was bad last season but here is the centerfield job. There was no bridge there was a huge gap in it and they fell right into the water.

[Pickles]

Isn't that all anybody can do? Nothing is guaranteed. All you can do is create a situation where the odds are in your favor' date=' then sit back and hope the cards fall your way.

Boston had a plan. Buildup their farm system. They have done that and then some. They made moves to get out of their bad contracts, and avoided getting themselves into more bad ones. It all seemed to be geared towards this farm they had put so much into, paying off (and somehow they won a WS in their midst of their rebuild).

They can't guarantee the strategy they employed will work, but that's true of anyone.[/quote']

Then why is it when the O's play wait and see in the FA market it's some kind of sign that they lack a plan? I mean, isn't that all anybody can do?

[Reboulet'sStache]

Na. They just screwed up. And they weren't that good last year. Just incredibly lucky.

I dont' think so. I would agree that they probably didn't envision a WS team last year. But even the way they structured the team last year was part of a long term vision. Avoid bad contracts, try to field a competitive team, with all of it geared towards the farm.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I love how you make excuse after excuse for the Red Sox, and continually try to pillar the O's.

When the Red Sox have a "down year" it's you can't dominate every year.

When the O's are leading the division, and in the midst of their third straight competitive season, it's "bad times are coming because they don't have a plan."

Interesting perspective.

Boston won the World Series last year. The O's last did that when? Being the champion kind of buys you good will.

[Reboulet'sStache]

Then why is it when the O's play wait and see in the FA market it's some kind of sign that they lack a plan? I mean, isn't that all anybody can do?

How are the O's playing wait and see in the FA market? And I think the O's strategy in the FA market was argued by some other posters, not me. So I don't want to speak for them as to the answer.

[Stotle]

I think "Ok" minors is a bit of an undersell.

The Sox 2002 top ten list had Hanley Ramirez, Youkilis, and Lester on it. Stars every one of them. In addition to several other guys who carved out useful ML careers. That's a pretty strong system.

In addition, the big league club had Lowe, Martinez, and Wakefield on the pitching staff. And Damon, Ramirez, Nixon, Varitek all of whom played large roles on the first championship team. (Not to mention Garciaparra.) And they won 93 games.

There was a very strong foundation there. Theo deserves all the credit he can garner, but, much like MacPhail here, I think DD gets a bit of a short shrift on what was left behind.

Baseball America ranked them among the bottom five or so systems in the game:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-talent-rankings/2006/26854.html

Big league club was good, no question. In fact, they were VERY good.

[weams]

Isn't that all anybody can do? Nothing is guaranteed. All you can do is create a situation where the odds are in your favor' date=' then sit back and hope the cards fall your way.

Boston had a plan. Buildup their farm system. They have done that and then some. They made moves to get out of their bad contracts, and avoided getting themselves into more bad ones. It all seemed to be geared towards this farm they had put so much into, paying off (and somehow they won a WS in their midst of their rebuild).

They can't guarantee the strategy they employed will work, but that's true of anyone.[/quote']

The Red Sox organization is very overrated. John Henry has a lot of money. That's it.