Drungo's Blog About Pitchers Throwing Harder Today - Question?

[DrungoHazewood]

...Tom Phoebus who I saw pitch in person was only about 5'7'' and though I don't believe there were radar guns then, I believe could throw in the upper 90's on a regular basis.

How would you know?

[ledzepp8]

Interesting but not gospel in your size interpretation. Ron Guidry wasn't a big guy but he could really bring it and Tom Phoebus who I saw pitch in person was only about 5'7'' and though I don't believe there were radar guns then, I believe could throw in the upper 90's on a regular basis. He is one of the handful of Orioles to throw a no-hitter. Also, Moe Drabowski was very much a flame thrower yet not that big a guy. In the modern era, Tim Lithicum isn't a big guy either and he also can bring it.

I ask again, do you understand averages and outliers? Or are you trying to be obtuse?

[Nigel Tufnel]

I ask again, do you understand averages and outliers? Or are you trying to be obtuse?

When he was 8 years old, he was not only analyzing and categorizing the curveballs of every pitcher in the majors by listening on the radio, but he had also developed a secret method of measuring how hard they threw.

[murph]

Interesting but not gospel in your size interpretation. Ron Guidry wasn't a big guy but he could really bring it and Tom Phoebus who I saw pitch in person was only about 5'7'' and though I don't believe there were radar guns then, I believe could throw in the upper 90's on a regular basis. He is one of the handful of Orioles to throw a no-hitter. Also, Moe Drabowski was very much a flame thrower yet not that big a guy. In the modern era, Tim Lithicum isn't a big guy either and he also can bring it.

Um...not to pile on, but it's Tim Lincecum and he used to be able to "bring it"....not so much anymore.

This thread is entertaining.

[Can_of_corn]

When he was 8 years old, he was not only analyzing and categorizing the curveballs of every pitcher in the majors by listening on the radio, but he had also developed a secret method of measuring how hard they threw.

He could hear, through the broadcast, the ball leaving the pitcher's fingertips and also hear it caressing the catcher's mitt. He would then, in his head, do the math to calculate the velocity.

[Plutarch]

A few thoughts come to mind:

1) This one is along the lines of "necessity is the mother of invention" thought. As hitters became stronger (PEDs and/or training & nutrition) pitchers needed to compensate by also becoming stronger (and more fit) leading to more players able to throw at high speeds.

2) Back in the day at least 1/3 of the lineup was made up of guys for whom the bat was more of a prop than a weapon. If some 140lb shortstop could not generate enough power off of a 80mph pitch to hit it out of the infield, why give him the extra power that would be created by throwing him a pitch >90 mph.

3) As previously stated the role of the starting pitcher has changed from 9 innings to 6-7 innings with a pitch count. The wear and tear on an arm (and body) from throwing 130-50 pitches a game (with a majority being fastballs) is probably far greater than 90-110 pitches. This reminds me of the early '70s Angels with Ryan and Tanana (sp?). Both were among the top velocity pitchers at the time and both relied heavily on the FB. As i recall each threw more that 300 innings several times. For whatever reason Ryan's arm could take it but Tannana's could not.

In summation I think it's all part of sports evolution. When one side does something the other needs to compensate. Thus stronger and better hitter required the pitcher to throw harder leading to less starts per year and less pitches per start. Of course the salary also has something to do with it but not sure how much given the insurance policies carried the the team.

End of ramble

[bobmc]

When he was 8 years old, he was not only analyzing and categorizing the curveballs of every pitcher in the majors by listening on the radio, but he had also developed a secret method of measuring how hard they threw.

He could hear, through the broadcast, the ball leaving the pitcher's fingertips and also hear it caressing the catcher's mitt. He would then, in his head, do the math to calculate the velocity.

Watch out - weams doesn't like this sort of "hazing". :smile11:

[Old#5fan]

How would you know?

Assuming guys like Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue, and Palmer threw in the 90's (saw all of them pitching in fairly close proximity seating in Memorial stadium) Phoebus looked every bit as fast. The fact he threw a no-hitter would also seem to attest to that as he wasn't throwing curve balls the entire game.

[Can_of_corn]

Assuming guys like Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue, and Palmer threw in the 90's (saw all of them pitching in fairly close proximity seating in Memorial stadium) Phoebus looked every bit as fast. The fact he threw a no-hitter would also seem to attest to that as he wasn't throwing curve balls the entire game.

Yep, good old Hoyt was certainly lighting up the radar gun when he threw his no hitter in '58.

Did you see that one?

[DrungoHazewood]

Yep, good old Hoyt was certainly lighting up the radar gun when he threw his no hitter in '58.

Did you see that one?

He was there with his Uncle when John Lee Richmond through his perfect game in 1880. Old#5 used his Edison Steam-Powered Radio-Active Object Speed Transducer to prove he threw 96. In the 9th inning. Underhanded, by the rules of the day.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I remember reading somewhere - maybe Bill James online - that there have been a few generations of radar guns, and each successive generation can pick the ball up more quickly, closer to the pitcher's release point. Since the ball is travelling its fastest at the release point, the gun reads faster. So newer guns read faster than older ones. Of course, I might not be remembering that correctly, or maybe Bill was just being a contrarian.

[OFFNY]

Assuming guys like Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue, and Palmer threw in the 90's (saw all of them pitching in fairly close proximity seating in Memorial Stadium), Phoebus looked every bit as fast. The fact he threw a no-hitter would also seem to attest to that, as he wasn't throwing curve balls the entire game.

Incorrigible.

[Old#5fan]

Yep, good old Hoyt was certainly lighting up the radar gun when he threw his no hitter in '58.

Did you see that one?

C'mon Wilhelmina didn't throw hard as he was a knuckleballer but the majority of no hitters are not thrown by soft tossers and you know it.

[Can_of_corn]

C'mon Wilhelmina didn't throw hard as he was a knuckleballer but the majority of no hitters are not thrown by soft tossers and you know it.

But what constitutes a soft tosser has changed over the years.

(that sounded a bit dirty)

Also bit rude for you to call a Hall of Famer Wilhelmina.

[Old#5fan]

But what constitutes a soft tosser has changed over the years.

(that sounded a bit dirty)

Also bit rude for you to call a Hall of Famer Wilhelmina.

I didn't intend to type that but am riding home on a train and bouncing around and the phone must have defaulted to that word