The guy I keep waiting for: Schoop

[tettleton14]

No, he has been that bad. Even accounting for the fact that offense is down, Schoop's OPS right now is worse than 11 other qualifying second basemen in the league, and that includes all three guys you mentioned. There's no getting around the fact that his offense has been atrocious in every single aspect except home runs. It is a fair argument to say if not for his defense he wouldn't be in the big leagues right now, because his total offensive performance doesn't merit it.

But it isn't fair to say that, because defense is an important part of the game — especially for a second baseman. His total offensive performance wouldn't merit a roster spot if defense didn't matter and he showed no promise at the plate. Neither are true.

[25 Nuggets]

He actually has not been as bad as many people believe this is not the 90s anymore hitting is down. He actually has a higher War then gus like Kipnis, Infante, and Beckman. Yeah his defense helps but a .220 average now is equal to around .240-.250.

No, he has been that bad. Even accounting for the fact that offense is down, Schoop's OPS right now is worse than 11 other qualifying second basemen in the league, and that includes all three guys you mentioned. There's no getting around the fact that his offense has been atrocious in every single aspect except home runs. It is a fair argument to say if not for his defense he wouldn't be in the big leagues right now, because his total offensive performance doesn't merit it.

Yeah; if you want to bring WAR into the equation, his offensive WAR is below replacement level.

[LookitsPuck]

He actually has not been as bad as many people believe this is not the 90s anymore hitting is down. He actually has a higher War then gus like Kipnis, Infante, and Beckman. Yeah his defense helps but a .220 average now is equal to around .240-.250.

He's hitting 216. He has a 254 OBP. He's slugging 340. Overall OPS is under 600. He's struck out 82 times in 349 plate appearances. His line drive rate is under 13%. The only thing he does from a hitting perspective is hit the accidental homer.

[tettleton14]

He's hitting 216. He has a 254 OBP. He's slugging 340. Overall OPS is under 600. He's struck out 82 times in 349 plate appearances. His line drive rate is under 13%. The only thing he does from a hitting perspective is hit the accidental homer.

Saying he hits the accidental homer is like saying he has an accidental plate appearance. It's disregarding what appears to be a significant strength of his, and how valuable home runs are.

No, he's not hitting well. But he 1)has power, and 2)has a good chance of getting better.

[El Gordo]

But it isn't fair to say that, because defense is an important part of the game — especially for a second baseman. His total offensive performance wouldn't merit a roster spot if defense didn't matter and he showed no promise at the plate. Neither are true.

So far I haven't seen him show promise at the plate. I haven't seen any improvement in plate discipline and he continues to strike out far too much. He is a good field no hit 2B.

[Ruzious]

Eh. The guy is 22 years old and he's getting what he needs, namely major league experience. We'll just have to see if he gets better or not, but plenty of people do as they reach their mid-20s. What's most important right now is his rock-solid glove at 2B.

LOL, what do we have the minor leagues for? He's been the worst hitting starting 2nd baseman in the AL all year. And he does make mistakes at 2nd base - they seem to be increasing.

[Can_of_corn]

I think he is finally starting to turn it around. While I don't expect big things from him here on out I do think he is going to start providing league average production at second, of course it will be more power then on base.

[LookitsPuck]

Saying he hits the accidental homer is like saying he has an accidental plate appearance. It's disregarding what appears to be a significant strength of his, and how valuable home runs are.

No, he's not hitting well. But he 1)has power, and 2)has a good chance of getting better.

It's disregarding it because his line drive rate combined with the weak grounders and weak popups dictate that they are...in fact...accidental. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, he's young and has power. But that means absolutely diddly squat when the vast majority of the time he's an offensive blackhole.

I think he'll be good...and sooner than later. But this year is not that time.

I keep saying this, but he didn't do much at AAA...and not much at AA.

[LookitsPuck]

I think he is finally starting to turn it around. While I don't expect big things from him here on out I do think he is going to start providing league average production at second, of course it will be more power then on base.

July: .179/.191/.269 - .460 OPS

Last 7 games of July: .182/.217/.318 - .536 OPS

First 7 games of August: .200/.273/.400 - .673 OPS

August: .250/.308/.542 - .849 OPS

Problem is he had a good stretch early in June, too:

June 1st to 11th (7 games): .308/.400/.346 - .746 OPS

So I really can't get too excited.

[Can_of_corn]

This strikes me as pretty big coming from you.

Keep in mind I am:

1- Pro Schoop from way back

2- Moderate in my prediction

3- A vehement hater of Flaherty.

[weams]

I think he is finally starting to turn it around. While I don't expect big things from him here on out I do think he is going to start providing league average production at second, of course it will be more power then on base.

You can't teach that kind of power or size.

[DrungoHazewood]

But doesn't Schoop have to figure things out sometime? I mean, he looks like a major leaguer to me, but he has really struggled despite the occasional bomb and clutch hit.

Now would be a good time for him to figure things out.

Schoop has a MLB OPS of .605. Through age 22 Brooks Robinson had a .631 OPS. Pie Traynor had a .572. Nellie Fox a .613. Mike Schmidt a .619. Tony Perez was 2-for-25. High Pockets Kelly was 20-for-144 (.139). And about 30 HOF position players had yet to make their debut by Schoop's age. Ozzie Smith and Hughie Jennings had lower OPSes through 24 than Schoop does at 22.

It would be nice for him to figure things out right away, but it doesn't always work that way. Even among the enshrined.

[DrungoHazewood]

Let's be honest, his bat has been a catastrophe. The only reason he's still up here is because of his glove. That's it. He hasn't progressed as a hitter, IMHO.

Wow, that's quite a statement. If having a 66 OPS+ is a catastrophe, then there have been 35 catastrophic seasons since 2000 among batting title qualifiers. And 189 catastrophic seasons since the turn of the century if you lower the PA threshold to 300.

Personally I'd set the catastrophe threshold to something more along the lines of end-stage Chone Figgins.

[Frobby]

LOL, what do we have the minor leagues for? He's been the worst hitting starting 2nd baseman in the AL all year. And he does make mistakes at 2nd base - they seem to be increasing.

He had gone 39 games without an error before making an error in each of the last two games (though Buck questioned the official scorer's call from last night). I think it's pretty hard to dispute that he has played an above average 2B overall.

I've advocated sending Schoop to the minors for a while, but it's apparent that Dan and Buck aren't going to do that. So instead, I'm rooting for him to start to "get it" at the plate. I believe he has the innate ability and someday will be an above average hitter for a 2B.

[DrungoHazewood]

LOL, what do we have the minor leagues for? He's been the worst hitting starting 2nd baseman in the AL all year. And he does make mistakes at 2nd base - they seem to be increasing.

And yet Oakland, San Francisco, and San Diego all have worse OPSes out of their second basemen than the Orioles.